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 Post subject: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:21 am 
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Well it's happened as per Red Bull twitter.

Albon will replace Gasly at Red Bull from Spa. I assume Gasly moves the other way.

Now with link - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/albo ... a/4512520/


Last edited by mikeyg123 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:25 am 
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12 days ago.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko-gasly-red-bull-kvyat/4503927/

The guys nothing but an evil cretin.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:26 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
12 days ago.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko-gasly-red-bull-kvyat/4503927/

The guys nothing but an evil cretin.


TBF We don't know what Gasly was being told. Marko has been criticised before for not supporting drivers in public.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:29 am 
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He had to go, he was simply too slow. It will be interesting now to see the new comparisons. Kyvat could be in the Red Bull next season if he looks very strong against Gasly. Albon is harder to judge, being dropped in mid season against a driver like Verstappen is as tough as it gets. If Albon can equal Gaslys form initially, I think that will be a a solid enough achievement. But then after 5 or so races he has to get closer to Verstappen 0.3-0.4 type range at least. Verstappen himself when dropped into Red Bull was out qualified 6-0 in his first 6, being dropped in mid season is very tough.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:31 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
12 days ago.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko-gasly-red-bull-kvyat/4503927/

The guys nothing but an evil cretin.


TBF We don't know what Gasly was being told. Marko has been criticised before for not supporting drivers in public.


Yeah I suppose he couldn't say much else in public could he?

Maybe a bit to harsh on the good Senator Palpadine.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:32 am 
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I have to say I'm quite shocked by the decision, is Albon anywhere near ready for the promotion?

I thought if anybody Kvyat would fill the seat, I guess it just shows that he's just a stop gap solution for STR because of the dearth of Red Bull junior drivers?

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:33 am 
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What happens if Albon is every bit as far away as Gasly and Gasly beats Kvyat?


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:37 am 
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Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...


Sorry just had to sign in to say that.


Whoooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaa.


I expect Albon to be equally trashed, especially just "randomly" coming into the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:38 am 
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It's not the 1st time we're seeing Red Bull screw with a driver's F1 career. I just hope fo God's sake, Albon delivers otherwise Marko will think of some audacious move before 2020 & ruin Albon's career.

Gasly was underperforming no doubt but it's true he was probably not ready for the promotion, which is again true in the case of Albon.

If Albon underperforms too, will Red Bull finally look out of the Red Bull stable to partner Verstappen in 2020?

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am 
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It's another mistake. I know circumstances dictated it (with Vettel and then Ricciardo leaving) but none of Kvyat, Gasly or Albon were ready. Albon's a decent prospect who had a strong second year in F2 but this is going to kill his development. Max will eat him alive and they'll be talking about replacing him by the end of the year. Sigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am 
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Gasly was not ready, and not really quick. His 4th place in Bahrain 2018 was not a measure of anything.
But why not Kvyat? Albon is more prone to mistakes, and lacks experience as much as Gasly.

Surprised, but then, RBR knows better their drivers than me or anybody else here.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:44 am 
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Holy crapballs, was not expecting this in the least!

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:46 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
It's another mistake. I know circumstances dictated it (with Vettel and then Ricciardo leaving) but none of Kvyat, Gasly or Albon were ready. Albon's a decent prospect who had a strong second year in F2 but this is going to kill his development. Max will eat him alive and they'll be talking about replacing him by the end of the year. Sigh.


I'm not sure if I agree with this line of thinking anymore. The bar is set low enough now that if he was ever going to be good enough for Red Bull he will be able to reach it. He basically has to be able to finish ahead of the Mclaren's consistently and not get lapped. I don't think Red Bull are expecting him to be Verstappen.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:47 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
It's not the 1st time we're seeing Red Bull screw with a driver's F1 career. I just hope fo God's sake, Albon delivers otherwise Marko will think of some audacious move before 2020 & ruin Albon's career.

Gasly was underperforming no doubt but it's true he was probably not ready for the promotion, which is again true in the case of Albon.

If Albon underperforms too, will Red Bull finally look out of the Red Bull stable to partner Verstappen in 2020?


Yeah, they probably will

If Mercedes go with Ocon, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Bottas in the 2nd Red Bull seat next year and it'd make a great deal of sense

It'd somewhat recreate the dynamics of the Vettel / Webber years at Red Bull - the young charger & the older experienced head

Bottas would have a point to prove when on track against the Mercedes & he's quick enough to push Max whilst not pushing him too much


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:49 am 
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What this does really show is that being in the right place at the right time is more important than talent when it comes to getting a go in a top seat. 6 months ago Albon was preparing for a season in Formula E.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:54 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
What happens if Albon is every bit as far away as Gasly and Gasly beats Kvyat?

Then they need a driver from outside their program, maybe that's what they are trying to find out for next season but at that point I guess it would be too late to find a suitable candidate?

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:00 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
What this does really show is that being in the right place at the right time is more important than talent when it comes to getting a go in a top seat. 6 months ago Albon was preparing for a season in Formula E.

Yeah the only way he could finance a second year with DAMS in F2 was to agree to drive for their FE team the year after.

As for the talent angle he did kind of have to get the results to forward his career, a strong second season in F2 followed by a strong showing in F1 as a rookie.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:01 am 
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Correct call IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:02 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
What this does really show is that being in the right place at the right time is more important than talent when it comes to getting a go in a top seat. 6 months ago Albon was preparing for a season in Formula E.

Yeah the only way he could finance a second year with DAMS in F2 was to agree to drive for their FE team the year after.

As for the talent angle he did kind of have to get the results to forward his career, a strong second season in F2 followed by a strong showing in F1 as a rookie.


Sure I'm not saying he didn't deserve it but if Ricciardo decided to stay at Red Bull then he is in FE with just as much talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:13 am 
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This swap makes it pretty clear RedBull considers Kvyatt a temporary measure.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:16 am 
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I would have expected Kyvat to take the seat so must assume that RB see him as a known quantity, and useful benchmark against which to compare both Albon and Gasly.
It's a frighteningly rapid rise for Albon; I hope that this does not ruin his fledgling career.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:23 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
What this does really show is that being in the right place at the right time is more important than talent when it comes to getting a go in a top seat. 6 months ago Albon was preparing for a season in Formula E.

Yeah the only way he could finance a second year with DAMS in F2 was to agree to drive for their FE team the year after.

As for the talent angle he did kind of have to get the results to forward his career, a strong second season in F2 followed by a strong showing in F1 as a rookie.


Sure I'm not saying he didn't deserve it but if Ricciardo decided to stay at Red Bull then he is in FE with just as much talent.

I actually get what you mean now although I wonder if Albon might have still got the STR drive anyway, as we see now it was Kvyat that was the stop gap measure?

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:45 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
What this does really show is that being in the right place at the right time is more important than talent when it comes to getting a go in a top seat. 6 months ago Albon was preparing for a season in Formula E.

Yeah the only way he could finance a second year with DAMS in F2 was to agree to drive for their FE team the year after.

As for the talent angle he did kind of have to get the results to forward his career, a strong second season in F2 followed by a strong showing in F1 as a rookie.


Sure I'm not saying he didn't deserve it but if Ricciardo decided to stay at Red Bull then he is in FE with just as much talent.

I actually get what you mean now although I wonder if Albon might have still got the STR drive anyway, as we see now it was Kvyat that was the stop gap measure?


I think Kvyat was already in when Albon was announced so I don't think so.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:11 pm 
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I just hope Kvyat continues to deliver in the Toro Rosso.

Maybe he's not as fast as Max, but is good enough to be in F1 for sure.

Helmut Marko ... If it hadn't been for Vettel, this guy would have been out of the job for some time now.

I don't think he's a bad person and I am sure he's passionate enough ... but he just sucks at management and people management.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:18 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
I just hope Kvyat continues to deliver in the Toro Rosso.

Maybe he's not as fast as Max, but is good enough to be in F1 for sure.

Helmut Marko ... If it hadn't been for Vettel, this guy would have been out of the job for some time now.

I don't think he's a bad person and I am sure he's passionate enough ... but he just sucks at management and people management.


Ricciardo and Verstappen were pretty good as well.

Have Red Bull ever not given a fair crack to a driver that proved to actually be good enough elsewhere?


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Were it my call to make, I'd have replaced Gasly with Kvyat quite some time ago. I don't think Albon is ready. Kvyat is now a mature driver who could collect quite a few more points than Gasly did. Albon could have proved his worth if he walked on Gasly while learning things like when a track is dry enough for intermediates or slicks. Both Gasly and Hartley were pathetic last year. I'm not sure why Red Bull thought Gasly was ever a solution, or why they're even going to waste an STR on him.

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Last edited by Todd on Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:32 pm 
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oh I don't like this at all, it is surely far too early for Albon andcould absolutely destroy his F1 career. Sure he has looked pretty good so far, but again this has to be far too early. Just don't see this working out well for Albon. Hope I'm wrong


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
oh I don't like this at all, it is surely far too early for Albon andcould absolutely destroy his F1 career. Sure he has looked pretty good so far, but again this has to be far too early. Just don't see this working out well for Albon. Hope I'm wrong


I reckon Albon might have 4-5 races to show he deserves that RB seat next year.

Unless he can pull a rabbit out of his hat I think the poor guys on a hiding to nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
He had to go, he was simply too slow. It will be interesting now to see the new comparisons. Kyvat could be in the Red Bull next season if he looks very strong against Gasly. Albon is harder to judge, being dropped in mid season against a driver like Verstappen is as tough as it gets. If Albon can equal Gaslys form initially, I think that will be a a solid enough achievement. But then after 5 or so races he has to get closer to Verstappen 0.3-0.4 type range at least. Verstappen himself when dropped into Red Bull was out qualified 6-0 in his first 6, being dropped in mid season is very tough.


Agreed. I'm really excited for Albon and happy to see him given a chance to show what he can do in a more competitive machine. And it's a good point about Max being out qualified in his first 6 weekends. Can't wait for Spa now.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:03 pm 
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On the human side of things Red Bull is by far the worst team. Red Bull gives you winds...

Now I expect to see Albon, who is not producing miracles compared to Kvyat, doing worse than Gasly at Red Bull, and Gasly doing better than Albon at Toro Rosso. It wouldn't be a surprise.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:16 pm 
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It's going to be really tough for Gasly for the rest of this season. The humiliation of it coupled with having to face a Kvyat who'll be extra determined could even end his young career.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Ridiculous to put Albon in tbh, his first season in F1, hasn't been outstanding and now he's joining red bull half way in, fair play if Albon steps up but that's a ridiculous amount of pressure to out him under


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:19 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
It's going to be really tough for Gasly for the rest of this season. The humiliation of it coupled with having to face a Kvyat who'll be extra determined could even end his young career.


Well I suppose if anyone can understand how he's feeling & give him advice on how to deal with it it'll be Kvyat.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:22 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
12 days ago.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko-gasly-red-bull-kvyat/4503927/

The guys nothing but an evil cretin.


TBF We don't know what Gasly was being told. Marko has been criticised before for not supporting drivers in public.


Yeah I suppose he couldn't say much else in public could he?

Maybe a bit to harsh on the good Senator Palpadine.

He could have simply declined to comment one way or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:25 pm 
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It's a pretty savage move in both directions - what a task Albon is confronted with! But it's a great opportunity.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:32 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
12 days ago.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko-gasly-red-bull-kvyat/4503927/

The guys nothing but an evil cretin.


TBF We don't know what Gasly was being told. Marko has been criticised before for not supporting drivers in public.


Yeah I suppose he couldn't say much else in public could he?

Maybe a bit to harsh on the good Senator Palpadine.

He could have simply declined to comment one way or the other.


Which would be taken as a "he's out". Marko get's criticised either way.


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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:32 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
It's another mistake. I know circumstances dictated it (with Vettel and then Ricciardo leaving) but none of Kvyat, Gasly or Albon were ready. Albon's a decent prospect who had a strong second year in F2 but this is going to kill his development. Max will eat him alive and they'll be talking about replacing him by the end of the year. Sigh.

Verstappen had a solid SINGLE season in F3 when he got the call up to Toro Rosso and was solid while at Toro Rosso with a few solid performances before getting the call up to Red Bull and it didn't stifle his development one bit.
This notion that these young guys who have been professional drivers for over half their lives need this development time makes no sense. They've gone from Karts to single seaters and some have driven in other/different categories and have done well throughout which is why they're given the opportunity in F1. The reality is that you either have it or you don't. Albon looks solid thus far to me, but Kvyat is better. I think He's the guy who should have been promoted to partner Verstappen and it would have been the perfect way to evaluate Tost's opinion that Kvyat has been the best/fastest driver he's ever seen in Toro Rosso, a comment he made while employing Verstappen.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:38 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
What this does really show is that being in the right place at the right time is more important than talent when it comes to getting a go in a top seat. 6 months ago Albon was preparing for a season in Formula E.

Yeah the only way he could finance a second year with DAMS in F2 was to agree to drive for their FE team the year after.

As for the talent angle he did kind of have to get the results to forward his career, a strong second season in F2 followed by a strong showing in F1 as a rookie.


Sure I'm not saying he didn't deserve it but if Ricciardo decided to stay at Red Bull then he is in FE with just as much talent.

I actually get what you mean now although I wonder if Albon might have still got the STR drive anyway, as we see now it was Kvyat that was the stop gap measure?


I think Kvyat was already in when Albon was announced so I don't think so.

Not before Ricciardo left I believe?

I'm talking what might have happened if Ricciardo had stayed.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Todd wrote:
Were it my call to make, I'd have replaced Gasly with Kvyat quite some time ago. I don't think Albon is ready. Kvyat is now a mature driver who could collect quite a few more points than Gasly did. Albon could have proved his worth if he walked on Gasly while learning things like when a track is dry enough for intermediates or slicks. Both Gasly and Hartley were pathetic last year. I'm not sure why Red Bull thought Gasly was ever a solution, or why they're even going to waste an STR on him.

They only promoted Gasly to the mother team to try and prove that their young driver program is indeed the best. They want to prove their model is the best in F1 and all of racing and chose to die on their sword rather than hire from outside or go with Kvyat because going with Kvyat kind of says they were wrong to demote him in the first place, which they 100% were.

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 Post subject: Re: Albon in, Gasly out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
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mikeyg123 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
I just hope Kvyat continues to deliver in the Toro Rosso.

Maybe he's not as fast as Max, but is good enough to be in F1 for sure.

Helmut Marko ... If it hadn't been for Vettel, this guy would have been out of the job for some time now.

I don't think he's a bad person and I am sure he's passionate enough ... but he just sucks at management and people management.


Ricciardo and Verstappen were pretty good as well.

Have Red Bull ever not given a fair crack to a driver that proved to actually be good enough elsewhere?

Verstappen was never in the Red Bull junior program, he signed straight to the STR F1 team after winning 6 straight races in F3.

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