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Covalent wrote: BIB; how is it a no brainer to not sign him presently?

Because A) there is no competition for his services and B) the last two years his performances have dropped after he renewed his contract.

From Mercedes perspective there is no need to get the deal done now.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:@mcdo - If this did happen, it could be in mid 2018 when Bottas started to struggle. I don't think they approached Max before Bottas as Toto kind of panicked when Rosberg announced his retirement & since Toto was Bottas' manager as well, he chose Bottas in an eye blink.

No 2017, maybe for the 2019 season, Bottas had already signed to Mercedes for 2018, I think Verstappen may have had a get out clause in the final season of his initial contract?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... 0/3053198/

Rumours were that this had been done to stave off interest from Mercedes.

Wasn't it also rumoured that he was fast tracked into the senior team in 2016 for the same reason?

It's possible, they were able to fast track him into F1 with STR in the first place because of interest from Mercedes, basically they've probably been able to use Mercedes as a bargaining tool throughout the process.

Covalent wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: No that comes across as being different as in Mercedes making the decision to replace Hamilton with Verstappen regardless of what Hamilton intends to do.

That may happen. Look at how Schumacher ended at Ferrari. Merc can't afford for Hamilton to do a Rosberg and leave them without a top driver.

I could be wrong but wasn't retirement Schumachers choice though because he was against Raikkonen joining the team?

Thinking of the Merc future, to me, it'd make sense to punt Bottas at years end, bring in Ocon for a season to see how he measures up against Hamilton.

If Hamilton retires at the end of 2020, which I think's quite possible, Merc can then make an informed choice as to which direction they'd take. If they see that maybe Ocon is more a Webber / Coulthard type driver as opposed to a Vettel / Hamilton type, that'd still leave room for then to chase a big name & i'd put a million on it that Verstappen would be top of their list & rightly so.

Kimi was signed by Ferrari in 2005 I believe, because Schumacher was stalling on a new contract, he was thinking about retirement, if you remember 2005 was a bad season for Ferrari which maybe had something to do with Schumacher's thinking?

Anyway the signing of Kimi kind of ensured Schumacher was going to retire because it was going to be the end of the Ferrari #1, #2 driver policy which was the set up that Schumacher basically wanted.

Regarding Mercedes presently it would be a no brainer to not sign Bottas for 2020 but we've seen what's happened the past 2 years with Bottas when they have done that, my guess is that they will wait until around September and it will be based on how Bottas is performing rather than a need to evaluate Ocon and the need to plan for Hamilton's successor.

BIB; how is it a no brainer to not sign him presently?

Maybe I worded that wrong, I meant on present form Mercedes should sign Bottas but then threw in the caveats why they will wait.

pokerman wrote:

Covalent wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:
That may happen. Look at how Schumacher ended at Ferrari. Merc can't afford for Hamilton to do a Rosberg and leave them without a top driver.

I could be wrong but wasn't retirement Schumachers choice though because he was against Raikkonen joining the team?

Thinking of the Merc future, to me, it'd make sense to punt Bottas at years end, bring in Ocon for a season to see how he measures up against Hamilton.

If Hamilton retires at the end of 2020, which I think's quite possible, Merc can then make an informed choice as to which direction they'd take. If they see that maybe Ocon is more a Webber / Coulthard type driver as opposed to a Vettel / Hamilton type, that'd still leave room for then to chase a big name & i'd put a million on it that Verstappen would be top of their list & rightly so.

Kimi was signed by Ferrari in 2005 I believe, because Schumacher was stalling on a new contract, he was thinking about retirement, if you remember 2005 was a bad season for Ferrari which maybe had something to do with Schumacher's thinking?

Anyway the signing of Kimi kind of ensured Schumacher was going to retire because it was going to be the end of the Ferrari #1, #2 driver policy which was the set up that Schumacher basically wanted.

Regarding Mercedes presently it would be a no brainer to not sign Bottas for 2020 but we've seen what's happened the past 2 years with Bottas when they have done that, my guess is that they will wait until around September and it will be based on how Bottas is performing rather than a need to evaluate Ocon and the need to plan for Hamilton's successor.

BIB; how is it a no brainer to not sign him presently?

Maybe I worded that wrong, I meant on present form Mercedes should sign Bottas but then threw in the caveats why they will wait.

Ah, gotcha.

Ferrari and Renault will keep their drivers as is. Kimi will stay at Alfa, most likely still alongside Giovinazzi as I don't see Schumacher finishing high enough in F2 to get his Superlicense next year. Red Bull (and by extension Toro Rosso), who knows? I wouldn't be shocked if they dropped Gasly; I'd also not be shocked if they didn't drop Gasly. Guessing their driver moves is a fool's game. I don't see Gasly getting a great deal closer to Max but then again would Albon (or Kvyat)? And if they did promote one, does Gasly drop back down to Toro Rosso? Does Ticktum get a chance if he's got his Superlicense? Gun to my head I'd say they stick with what they've got and see where things stand this time next year.

That leaves Mercedes plus Haas/Racing Point/McLaren/Williams, a foursome for whom I feel it all hinges on Mercedes. Lewis will still be there, probably looking to equal Schumacher's 7 WDCs. If Bottas keeps driving like he has then it becomes an easier decision for Mercedes to retain him, at which point Ocon becomes available, while if Bottas' form trails off then he could get dropped for Ocon. Either way I think one of them is going to be free from Mercedes at the end of 2019.

From McLaren's point of view I'd argue that Bottas definitely represents an upgrade on Sainz while Ocon most likely does, but right now it's difficult to know if they'd be looking to change drivers since they've had a positive start to the season. Can't see them dropping Norris. There's always the Alonso factor too, but I don't think they've improved enough to entice him back for 2020. Racing Point is interesting since Perez is the better driver but Stroll isn't going to be dropped. I don't think they'd drop Perez for Ocon but if Bottas became available, I'd be curious to see if they were interested and whether they would drop Perez. Haas, if they're smart they'll wait and see what happens elsewhere and then decide. Their line-up would be improved by basically any of those names potentially available: Bottas, Ocon, Perez or Sainz.

Which just leaves Williams, who you would hope would be Russell plus whoever the best driver left is, but will probably be Russell plus whoever the driver with the best combination of talent and money is. I reckon it'll end up being Latifi, FWIW.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:Ferrari and Renault will keep their drivers as is. Kimi will stay at Alfa, most likely still alongside Giovinazzi as I don't see Schumacher finishing high enough in F2 to get his Superlicense next year. Red Bull (and by extension Toro Rosso), who knows? I wouldn't be shocked if they dropped Gasly; I'd also not be shocked if they didn't drop Gasly. Guessing their driver moves is a fool's game. I don't see Gasly getting a great deal closer to Max but then again would Albon (or Kvyat)? And if they did promote one, does Gasly drop back down to Toro Rosso? Does Ticktum get a chance if he's got his Superlicense? Gun to my head I'd say they stick with what they've got and see where things stand this time next year.

That leaves Mercedes plus Haas/Racing Point/McLaren/Williams, a foursome for whom I feel it all hinges on Mercedes. Lewis will still be there, probably looking to equal Schumacher's 7 WDCs. If Bottas keeps driving like he has then it becomes an easier decision for Mercedes to retain him, at which point Ocon becomes available, while if Bottas' form trails off then he could get dropped for Ocon. Either way I think one of them is going to be free from Mercedes at the end of 2019.

From McLaren's point of view I'd argue that Bottas definitely represents an upgrade on Sainz while Ocon most likely does, but right now it's difficult to know if they'd be looking to change drivers since they've had a positive start to the season. Can't see them dropping Norris. There's always the Alonso factor too, but I don't think they've improved enough to entice him back for 2020. Racing Point is interesting since Perez is the better driver but Stroll isn't going to be dropped. I don't think they'd drop Perez for Ocon but if Bottas became available, I'd be curious to see if they were interested and whether they would drop Perez. Haas, if they're smart they'll wait and see what happens elsewhere and then decide. Their line-up would be improved by basically any of those names potentially available: Bottas, Ocon, Perez or Sainz.

Which just leaves Williams, who you would hope would be Russell plus whoever the best driver left is, but will probably be Russell plus whoever the driver with the best combination of talent and money is. I reckon it'll end up being Latifi, FWIW.

Agree with your first paragraph and most of the big teams will likely be sticking with what they have and whether Gasly stays or not depends on whether he turns things around. I'm not sure I'd agree that Bottas would be an upgrade on Sainz, though, and I think it likely that Sainz will stay on there, together with Norris. The fly in the ointment might be Alonso coming back - while I agree that McLaren haven't yet improved to the level Alonso would be comfortable with, if they can show enough progress through the season and look to be beating the rest of the midfield - and Renault in particular - then he might be tempted. I suspect he knows that the doors to all the other big teams are firmly welded shut for him and if he does ever want to return to F1 - and I strongly suspect he feels he has unfinished business there - then McLaren or Renault are virtually his only shots and he might feel that he can make a difference in the leading midfield team to return to some glory.

In short I think it's going to be a relatively dull silly season as all the top teams will remain reasonably static.

Doesn't Sainz have a two year deal? I think the key to any moves will be the Merc second seat and Haas. The drivers available in the midfield mean Haas could seriously upgrade.

mikeyg123 wrote:Doesn't Sainz have a two year deal? I think the key to any moves will be the Merc second seat and Haas. The drivers available in the midfield mean Haas could seriously upgrade.

I think Haas' biggest problem is that their car is terrible at the moment: they just can't get it to work on the tyres so the drivers can't really show anything.

Zoue wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Doesn't Sainz have a two year deal? I think the key to any moves will be the Merc second seat and Haas. The drivers available in the midfield mean Haas could seriously upgrade.

I think Haas' biggest problem is that their car is terrible at the moment: they just can't get it to work on the tyres so the drivers can't really show anything.

Yeah but unless you think you're never going to sort that issue you should try to bring in the best drivers you can. I think any of Perez, Bottas or Ocon would be an upgrade on either of their drivers.

I also think there is a slim possibility for Ocon at STR if Merc let him go.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:Ferrari and Renault will keep their drivers as is. Kimi will stay at Alfa, most likely still alongside Giovinazzi as I don't see Schumacher finishing high enough in F2 to get his Superlicense next year. Red Bull (and by extension Toro Rosso), who knows? I wouldn't be shocked if they dropped Gasly; I'd also not be shocked if they didn't drop Gasly. Guessing their driver moves is a fool's game. I don't see Gasly getting a great deal closer to Max but then again would Albon (or Kvyat)? And if they did promote one, does Gasly drop back down to Toro Rosso? Does Ticktum get a chance if he's got his Superlicense? Gun to my head I'd say they stick with what they've got and see where things stand this time next year.

That leaves Mercedes plus Haas/Racing Point/McLaren/Williams, a foursome for whom I feel it all hinges on Mercedes. Lewis will still be there, probably looking to equal Schumacher's 7 WDCs. If Bottas keeps driving like he has then it becomes an easier decision for Mercedes to retain him, at which point Ocon becomes available, while if Bottas' form trails off then he could get dropped for Ocon. Either way I think one of them is going to be free from Mercedes at the end of 2019.

From McLaren's point of view I'd argue that Bottas definitely represents an upgrade on Sainz while Ocon most likely does, but right now it's difficult to know if they'd be looking to change drivers since they've had a positive start to the season. Can't see them dropping Norris. There's always the Alonso factor too, but I don't think they've improved enough to entice him back for 2020. Racing Point is interesting since Perez is the better driver but Stroll isn't going to be dropped. I don't think they'd drop Perez for Ocon but if Bottas became available, I'd be curious to see if they were interested and whether they would drop Perez. Haas, if they're smart they'll wait and see what happens elsewhere and then decide. Their line-up would be improved by basically any of those names potentially available: Bottas, Ocon, Perez or Sainz.

Which just leaves Williams, who you would hope would be Russell plus whoever the best driver left is, but will probably be Russell plus whoever the driver with the best combination of talent and money is. I reckon it'll end up being Latifi, FWIW.

I agree with Ferrari and Renault, I don't see Schumacher being ready for 2020 so see Alfa as staying the same as well. At Red Bull it's too early to be writing off Gasly who let's not forget had a good race in Baku and would have qualified well if not for his silly mistake with the weighbridge. For the junior drivers Ticktum's first outing in Japan wasn't great so he may not get a F1 super license, so the STR line up may remain the same?

For Mercedes it depends upon Bottas himself whoever misses out between Bottas and Ocon like you say whoever Mercedes let go should be able to find another seat in F1, I would be looking more at Haas rather than McLaren. I don't understand the idea that perhaps that Sainz is not performing in respect to Norris, I expect this line up to remain the same as I don't see Alonso back in F1 in 2020, McLaren are still not at that level to entice him back.

Racing Point will remain the same, Perez is one of the best midfield drivers and also brings money for the team, in respect to Perez for him the team now has great potential giving the backing it now has and can become the best of the midfield teams so why leave, then we have Stroll who is not really good enough for the seat but his Dad owns the team.

Haas as I've already mentioned would surely take either Bottas and Ocon to replace one of their drivers, I would also like to see an American based driver in one of the cars but that's more what I would like to see than what will probably will happen. Then there is Williams which will be Russell plus a driver with a pot of gold, possibly Latifi who's Father is mega rich and Latifi is presently doing well in F2, he's leading, and looks like he will get the necessary F1 super license points.

mikeyg123 wrote:

Zoue wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Doesn't Sainz have a two year deal? I think the key to any moves will be the Merc second seat and Haas. The drivers available in the midfield mean Haas could seriously upgrade.

I think Haas' biggest problem is that their car is terrible at the moment: they just can't get it to work on the tyres so the drivers can't really show anything.

Yeah but unless you think you're never going to sort that issue you should try to bring in the best drivers you can. I think any of Perez, Bottas or Ocon would be an upgrade on either of their drivers.

I also think there is a slim possibility for Ocon at STR if Merc let him go.

Good shout I'd not thought of that.

Some reports suggest Vettel could retire at the end of the season due to making mistakes & not bringing the crown to Ferrari. Increased pressure from Leclerc is also adding to this speculation.

Incase Vettel leaves Ferrari & retires, Ferrari could be looking at Bottas, Perez, Magnussen or Grosjean. If Bottas joins Ferrari, Ocon's path is clear.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... s-Mercedes

As per some reports in the Italian media, Red Bull are looking to Hulk at replacing Gasly at Red Bull in 2020. Hulk's 3 year deal expires at the end of this year. Will have to wait for the progress on this speculation.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/38162/hu ... -bull.html

UnlikeUday wrote:As per some reports in the Italian media, Red Bull are looking to Hulk at replacing Gasly at Red Bull in 2020. Hulk's 3 year deal expires at the end of this year. Will have to wait for the progress on this speculation.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/38162/hu ... -bull.html

I find that a bit surprising given the way Ricciardo is starting to beat the Hulk, I feel a bit sorry for Gasly unless they drop him back down to STR but both Kvyat and Albon are driving reasonably well.

It looks like Verstappen is set fair to replace Alonso as the destroyer of young drivers careers?

I... don't believe either of those stories

UnlikeUday wrote:As per some reports in the Italian media, Red Bull are looking to Hulk at replacing Gasly at Red Bull in 2020. Hulk's 3 year deal expires at the end of this year. Will have to wait for the progress on this speculation.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/38162/hu ... -bull.html

I think it would be a good move. Max is the leader of that team and will remain so, but Hulk won't be as bad as Gasly and will provide solid results. I think Redbull understand that there is no need to have 2 first class drivers in the team. Of course Albon and Kvyatt are also candidates, but I'd say Hulk is a more proven quantity. I'd give him a one year contract with an option.

kleefton wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:As per some reports in the Italian media, Red Bull are looking to Hulk at replacing Gasly at Red Bull in 2020. Hulk's 3 year deal expires at the end of this year. Will have to wait for the progress on this speculation.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/38162/hu ... -bull.html

I think it would be a good move. Max is the leader of that team and will remain so, but Hulk won't be as bad as Gasly and will provide solid results. I think Redbull understand that there is no need to have 2 first class drivers in the team. Of course Albon and Kvyatt are also candidates, but I'd say Hulk is a more proven quantity. I'd give him a one year contract with an option.

I'm expecting Gasly to get demoted to Toro Rosso, Albon up to RBR, O'Warde into Toro Rosso, and Kvyat left without a chair when the music stops.

Hulk would be a good team mate to Verstappen. A bit like Irvine was to Schumacher. Head strong enough to deal with getting beaten and fast enough to get results.

mikeyg123 wrote:Hulk would be a good team mate to Verstappen. A bit like Irvine was to Schumacher. Head strong enough to deal with getting beaten and fast enough to get results.

Reading a lot of reports here & there now. Looks like Hulk will finally get his podium in 2020.

UnlikeUday wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Hulk would be a good team mate to Verstappen. A bit like Irvine was to Schumacher. Head strong enough to deal with getting beaten and fast enough to get results.

Reading a lot of reports here & there now. Looks like Hulk will finally get his podium in 2020.

Gasly hasn't got one yet... I wouldn't be so sure of Max's teammate netting a podium as long as the pecking order remains similar to how it is now.

UnlikeUday wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Hulk would be a good team mate to Verstappen. A bit like Irvine was to Schumacher. Head strong enough to deal with getting beaten and fast enough to get results.

Reading a lot of reports here & there now. Looks like Hulk will finally get his podium in 2020.

Gotta get past his team mate, 2 Mercs & 2 Ferrari's to get that podium so I wouldn't call it yet.

If true, wonder how big a part the "get back" motivation plays in chasing Hulkenberg.

I feel for Ghasly. 6 races into his RB tenure & according to some sources he's already out the door.

UnlikeUday wrote:Some reports suggest Vettel could retire at the end of the season due to making mistakes & not bringing the crown to Ferrari. Increased pressure from Leclerc is also adding to this speculation.

Incase Vettel leaves Ferrari & retires, Ferrari could be looking at Bottas, Perez, Magnussen or Grosjean. If Bottas joins Ferrari, Ocon's path is clear.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... s-Mercedes

Vettel, a 4x WC, retiring because he thinks he's become mistake prone? Interesting.

I'll throw one name into the hat if he does though. Fernando Alonso.

With Hamilton, Verstappen & Ricciardo under contract for next year, & Leclerc still settling in, who else could come close to delivering a championship to Ferrari?

I know his history but I reckon if Ferrari said you get 2 yrs joint #1 only then you're gone, I reckon it'd be a good move.

Exediron wrote:

kleefton wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:As per some reports in the Italian media, Red Bull are looking to Hulk at replacing Gasly at Red Bull in 2020. Hulk's 3 year deal expires at the end of this year. Will have to wait for the progress on this speculation.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/38162/hu ... -bull.html

I think it would be a good move. Max is the leader of that team and will remain so, but Hulk won't be as bad as Gasly and will provide solid results. I think Redbull understand that there is no need to have 2 first class drivers in the team. Of course Albon and Kvyatt are also candidates, but I'd say Hulk is a more proven quantity. I'd give him a one year contract with an option.

I'm expecting Gasly to get demoted to Toro Rosso, Albon up to RBR, O'Warde into Toro Rosso, and Kvyat left without a chair when the music stops.

Does O'Ward have the super license points plus surely he needs to be getting better results in Indycars first, is he not in the same boat as Ticktum in regards to this?

In respect to Kvyat he's actually looking quite solid this year.

Jezza13 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Hulk would be a good team mate to Verstappen. A bit like Irvine was to Schumacher. Head strong enough to deal with getting beaten and fast enough to get results.

Reading a lot of reports here & there now. Looks like Hulk will finally get his podium in 2020.

Gotta get past his team mate, 2 Mercs & 2 Ferrari's to get that podium so I wouldn't call it yet.

If true, wonder how big a part the "get back" motivation plays in chasing Hulkenberg.

I feel for Ghasly. 6 races into his RB tenure & according to some sources he's already out the door.

UnlikeUday wrote:Some reports suggest Vettel could retire at the end of the season due to making mistakes & not bringing the crown to Ferrari. Increased pressure from Leclerc is also adding to this speculation.

Incase Vettel leaves Ferrari & retires, Ferrari could be looking at Bottas, Perez, Magnussen or Grosjean. If Bottas joins Ferrari, Ocon's path is clear.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... s-Mercedes

Vettel, a 4x WC, retiring because he thinks he's become mistake prone? Interesting.

I'll throw one name into the hat if he does though. Fernando Alonso.

With Hamilton, Verstappen & Ricciardo under contract for next year, & Leclerc still settling in, who else could come close to delivering a championship to Ferrari?

I know his history but I reckon if Ferrari said you get 2 yrs joint #1 only then you're gone, I reckon it'd be a good move.

Yeah I gave a thought to Alonso as well, it surely would be a test of how burnt the bridge is because on ability he's the best candidate but I guess it's also what Alonso brings with him, team harmony etc.

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Hulk would be a good team mate to Verstappen. A bit like Irvine was to Schumacher. Head strong enough to deal with getting beaten and fast enough to get results.

Reading a lot of reports here & there now. Looks like Hulk will finally get his podium in 2020.

Gotta get past his team mate, 2 Mercs & 2 Ferrari's to get that podium so I wouldn't call it yet.

If true, wonder how big a part the "get back" motivation plays in chasing Hulkenberg.

I feel for Ghasly. 6 races into his RB tenure & according to some sources he's already out the door.

UnlikeUday wrote:Some reports suggest Vettel could retire at the end of the season due to making mistakes & not bringing the crown to Ferrari. Increased pressure from Leclerc is also adding to this speculation.

Incase Vettel leaves Ferrari & retires, Ferrari could be looking at Bottas, Perez, Magnussen or Grosjean. If Bottas joins Ferrari, Ocon's path is clear.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... s-Mercedes

Vettel, a 4x WC, retiring because he thinks he's become mistake prone? Interesting.

I'll throw one name into the hat if he does though. Fernando Alonso.

With Hamilton, Verstappen & Ricciardo under contract for next year, & Leclerc still settling in, who else could come close to delivering a championship to Ferrari?

I know his history but I reckon if Ferrari said you get 2 yrs joint #1 only then you're gone, I reckon it'd be a good move.

Yeah I gave a thought to Alonso as well, it surely would be a test of how burnt the bridge is because on ability he's the best candidate but I guess it's also what Alonso brings with him, team harmony etc.

I doubt if they would want to get someone stronger than Leclerc. Leclerc is for Ferrari what Verstappen is for Red Bull. I had read Bottas is one of the candidates along with Perez & Magnussen.

UnlikeUday wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Hulk would be a good team mate to Verstappen. A bit like Irvine was to Schumacher. Head strong enough to deal with getting beaten and fast enough to get results.

Reading a lot of reports here & there now. Looks like Hulk will finally get his podium in 2020.

Gotta get past his team mate, 2 Mercs & 2 Ferrari's to get that podium so I wouldn't call it yet.

If true, wonder how big a part the "get back" motivation plays in chasing Hulkenberg.

I feel for Ghasly. 6 races into his RB tenure & according to some sources he's already out the door.

UnlikeUday wrote:Some reports suggest Vettel could retire at the end of the season due to making mistakes & not bringing the crown to Ferrari. Increased pressure from Leclerc is also adding to this speculation.

Incase Vettel leaves Ferrari & retires, Ferrari could be looking at Bottas, Perez, Magnussen or Grosjean. If Bottas joins Ferrari, Ocon's path is clear.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... s-Mercedes

Vettel, a 4x WC, retiring because he thinks he's become mistake prone? Interesting.

I'll throw one name into the hat if he does though. Fernando Alonso.

With Hamilton, Verstappen & Ricciardo under contract for next year, & Leclerc still settling in, who else could come close to delivering a championship to Ferrari?

I know his history but I reckon if Ferrari said you get 2 yrs joint #1 only then you're gone, I reckon it'd be a good move.

Yeah I gave a thought to Alonso as well, it surely would be a test of how burnt the bridge is because on ability he's the best candidate but I guess it's also what Alonso brings with him, team harmony etc.

I doubt if they would want to get someone stronger than Leclerc. Leclerc is for Ferrari what Verstappen is for Red Bull. I had read Bottas is one of the candidates along with Perez & Magnussen.

Yeah this has all been discussed in another thread, Bottas might find himself with the luxury of picking between Mercedes and Ferrari, or knowing there is a seat at Ferrari for Bottas, Mercedes might let him go which then solves their problem with Ocon?

All the recent posts make me feel like you all like too much discussing and are ready to swallow any bait as long as it allows endless arguments...
Who would like to join RBR to be Verstappen stableman ? RBR has always been a one driver team. Hulkenberg would get a podium at last ? Good, what a lifelong ambition ! But it will be fulfilled only if RBR gets their 2 drivers in the top 3. Because if there's only one reaching the top 3, it won't be the stableman.
Gasly is that bad ? Not sure of that... Though at RBR, not being the cherished one is enough to be thrown away. He just is not Verstappen. Kvyat may have been an ignored top driver, even top 3 (according to the F1 Planet love for ranking, which is not the way I look at motor racing...) to be called back after being demoted in favour of the beloved one.
By the way, I'm not sure RBR, who kicked through the door very good drivers to replace them by pop-star-in the-making would hire a may-be-very-good-but-not-that-special-driver, like Hulkenberg. Or do they need to improve the sales of their vomiting product in Germany ? Or do they just want to play games with Renault ?

It's not called silly season for no reason. Planet F1 forum is the place it's made sillier.

Harpo wrote:All the recent posts makes me feel like you all like too much discussing and are ready to swallow any bait as long as it allows endless arguments...
Who would like to join RBR to be Verstappen stableman ? RBR has always been a one driver team. Hulkenberg would get a podium at last ? Good, what a lifelong ambition ! But it will be fulfilled only if RBR gets their 2 drivers in the top 3. Because if there's only one reaching the top 3, it won't be the stableman.
Gasly is that bad ? Not sure of that... Though at RBR, not being the cherished one is enough to be thrown away. He just is not Verstappen. Kvyat may have been an ignored top driver, even top 3 (according to the F1 Planet love for ranking, which is not the way I look at motor racing...) to be called back after being demoted in favour of the beloved one.
By the way, I'm not sure RBR, who kicked through the door very good drivers to replace them by pop-star-in the-making would hire a may-be-very-good-but-not-that-special-driver, like Hulkenberg. Or do they need to improve the sales of their vomiting product in Germany ? Or do they just want to play games with Renault ?

It's not called silly season for no reason. Planet F1 forum is the place it's made sillier.

Jeez & here I was thinking I disliked RB.

Way to go Harpo.

Rage on brother

Jezza13 wrote:

Harpo wrote:All the recent posts makes me feel like you all like too much discussing and are ready to swallow any bait as long as it allows endless arguments...
Who would like to join RBR to be Verstappen stableman ? RBR has always been a one driver team. Hulkenberg would get a podium at last ? Good, what a lifelong ambition ! But it will be fulfilled only if RBR gets their 2 drivers in the top 3. Because if there's only one reaching the top 3, it won't be the stableman.
Gasly is that bad ? Not sure of that... Though at RBR, not being the cherished one is enough to be thrown away. He just is not Verstappen. Kvyat may have been an ignored top driver, even top 3 (according to the F1 Planet love for ranking, which is not the way I look at motor racing...) to be called back after being demoted in favour of the beloved one.
By the way, I'm not sure RBR, who kicked through the door very good drivers to replace them by pop-star-in the-making would hire a may-be-very-good-but-not-that-special-driver, like Hulkenberg. Or do they need to improve the sales of their vomiting product in Germany ? Or do they just want to play games with Renault ?

It's not called silly season for no reason. Planet F1 forum is the place it's made sillier.

Jeez & here I was thinking I disliked RB.

Way to go Harpo.

Rage on brother

I can't even say I dislike RBR, nor any team (though I admit that I'm sentimental about some of them, more because of what they were than what they are). It's just that I don't look with blind eyes at what are mainly, if not only, business moves.

Harpo wrote:All the recent posts makes me feel like you all like too much discussing and are ready to swallow any bait as long as it allows endless arguments...
Who would like to join RBR to be Verstappen stableman ? RBR has always been a one driver team. Hulkenberg would get a podium at last ? Good, what a lifelong ambition ! But it will be fulfilled only if RBR gets their 2 drivers in the top 3. Because if there's only one reaching the top 3, it won't be the stableman.
Gasly is that bad ? Not sure of that... Though at RBR, not being the cherished one is enough to be thrown away. He just is not Verstappen. Kvyat may have been an ignored top driver, even top 3 (according to the F1 Planet love for ranking, which is not the way I look at motor racing...) to be called back after being demoted in favour of the beloved one.
By the way, I'm not sure RBR, who kicked through the door very good drivers to replace them by pop-star-in the-making would hire a may-be-very-good-but-not-that-special-driver, like Hulkenberg. Or do they need to improve the sales of their vomiting product in Germany ? Or do they just want to play games with Renault ?

It's not called silly season for no reason. Planet F1 forum is the place it's made sillier.

The second seat at rbr is a highly desirable seat. It doesnt matter if Verstappen has the other seat. It is still a seat in a top team and you are running closer to the front with a much higher chance to win a race or get on the podium. Who in their right mind would not want that seat?

No offense to Gasly but he just doesn’t belong. Anybody that followed closely how he looked relatively to Hartley would know he would not be good at Redbull and next to Max. He got the seat because Hartley was even worse and there was nobody else for Redbull to take a chance on.

As to why Rbr would want Hulk; well they realize Merc and Ferrari have stronger lineups. They need one too if they want to realistically win the constructors championship. Hulk is probably the best choice because as mentioned he won’t ruffle any feathers and he will not be way off Max’s pace on a consistent basis like Gasly is. But he also won’t challenge Max, which is very important too for the team harmony.

kleefton wrote: As to why Rbr would want Hulk; well they realize Merc and Ferrari have stronger lineups. They need one too if they want to realistically win the constructors championship. Hulk is probably the best choice because as mentioned he won’t ruffle any feathers and he will not be way off Max’s pace on a consistent basis like Gasly is. But he also won’t challenge Max, which is very important too for the team harmony.

If that's the aim, they could as well keep Gasly...
Now, I'm ready to bet that Gasly will end being considered far better than this forum seem to think he is... I'm not sure that Hulkenberg, or any other driver new to the RBR team, would have done better than Gasly since the start of the season.

pokerman wrote:

Exediron wrote:I'm expecting Gasly to get demoted to Toro Rosso, Albon up to RBR, O'Warde into Toro Rosso, and Kvyat left without a chair when the music stops.

Does O'Ward have the super license points plus surely he needs to be getting better results in Indycars first, is he not in the same boat as Ticktum in regards to this?

In respect to Kvyat he's actually looking quite solid this year.

Having looked into it, yeah - he seems to be in the same situation. He doesn't have enough points because one of the series he would be relying on the points from didn't field 12 cars, a requirement for Super License points. So he'd need to finish fairly high up in IndyCar this year to qualify, something that seems unlikely with his current luck.

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:
Gotta get past his team mate, 2 Mercs & 2 Ferrari's to get that podium so I wouldn't call it yet.

If true, wonder how big a part the "get back" motivation plays in chasing Hulkenberg.

I feel for Ghasly. 6 races into his RB tenure & according to some sources he's already out the door.

UnlikeUday wrote:Some reports suggest Vettel could retire at the end of the season due to making mistakes & not bringing the crown to Ferrari. Increased pressure from Leclerc is also adding to this speculation.

Incase Vettel leaves Ferrari & retires, Ferrari could be looking at Bottas, Perez, Magnussen or Grosjean. If Bottas joins Ferrari, Ocon's path is clear.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... s-Mercedes

Vettel, a 4x WC, retiring because he thinks he's become mistake prone? Interesting.

I'll throw one name into the hat if he does though. Fernando Alonso.

With Hamilton, Verstappen & Ricciardo under contract for next year, & Leclerc still settling in, who else could come close to delivering a championship to Ferrari?

I know his history but I reckon if Ferrari said you get 2 yrs joint #1 only then you're gone, I reckon it'd be a good move.

Yeah I gave a thought to Alonso as well, it surely would be a test of how burnt the bridge is because on ability he's the best candidate but I guess it's also what Alonso brings with him, team harmony etc.

I doubt if they would want to get someone stronger than Leclerc. Leclerc is for Ferrari what Verstappen is for Red Bull. I had read Bottas is one of the candidates along with Perez & Magnussen.

Yeah this has all been discussed in another thread, Bottas might find himself with the luxury of picking between Mercedes and Ferrari, or knowing there is a seat at Ferrari for Bottas, Mercedes might let him go which then solves their problem with Ocon?

Yeah those are interesting thoughts but are we really entertaining this notion that Vettel is going to retire? I have to call BS on that whole idea. I just can't see it happening. Vettel is not like Hamilton in that he is more reserved and much harder to read. If he is in such a bad place mentally and emotionally that he's actually thinking seriously of retirement then he hides it very well.

sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

pokerman wrote: Yeah I gave a thought to Alonso as well, it surely would be a test of how burnt the bridge is because on ability he's the best candidate but I guess it's also what Alonso brings with him, team harmony etc.

I doubt if they would want to get someone stronger than Leclerc. Leclerc is for Ferrari what Verstappen is for Red Bull. I had read Bottas is one of the candidates along with Perez & Magnussen.

Yeah this has all been discussed in another thread, Bottas might find himself with the luxury of picking between Mercedes and Ferrari, or knowing there is a seat at Ferrari for Bottas, Mercedes might let him go which then solves their problem with Ocon?

Yeah those are interesting thoughts but are we really entertaining this notion that Vettel is going to retire? I have to call BS on that whole idea. I just can't see it happening. Vettel is not like Hamilton in that he is more reserved and much harder to read. If he is in such a bad place mentally and emotionally that he's actually thinking seriously of retirement then he hides it very well.

Well Red Bull were unaware that Vettel was in talks with Ferrari until he signed for them, he keeps his cards close to his chest.

pokerman wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Hulk would be a good team mate to Verstappen. A bit like Irvine was to Schumacher. Head strong enough to deal with getting beaten and fast enough to get results.

Reading a lot of reports here & there now. Looks like Hulk will finally get his podium in 2020.

Gotta get past his team mate, 2 Mercs & 2 Ferrari's to get that podium so I wouldn't call it yet.

If true, wonder how big a part the "get back" motivation plays in chasing Hulkenberg.

I feel for Ghasly. 6 races into his RB tenure & according to some sources he's already out the door.

UnlikeUday wrote:Some reports suggest Vettel could retire at the end of the season due to making mistakes & not bringing the crown to Ferrari. Increased pressure from Leclerc is also adding to this speculation.

Incase Vettel leaves Ferrari & retires, Ferrari could be looking at Bottas, Perez, Magnussen or Grosjean. If Bottas joins Ferrari, Ocon's path is clear.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... s-Mercedes

Vettel, a 4x WC, retiring because he thinks he's become mistake prone? Interesting.

I'll throw one name into the hat if he does though. Fernando Alonso.

With Hamilton, Verstappen & Ricciardo under contract for next year, & Leclerc still settling in, who else could come close to delivering a championship to Ferrari?

I know his history but I reckon if Ferrari said you get 2 yrs joint #1 only then you're gone, I reckon it'd be a good move.

Yeah I gave a thought to Alonso as well, it surely would be a test of how burnt the bridge is because on ability he's the best candidate but I guess it's also what Alonso brings with him, team harmony etc.

I don't think he'd be the best candidate in this scenario. If they're having trouble with Seb and Leclerc being too close and taking points off each other to the point Seb prefers retirement then you don't bring in someone who's likely going to create much the same situation.

If you're the team and you want a cosy team mate situation after that turmoil then you'd want either...

A) Someone to dominate Leclerc more often than not. (I don't think he exists)
or
B) Someone for Leclerc to dominate. (Pick any midfielder for cheaper than an Alonso who'll not likely be dominated anyway)



Either way that recent turmoil and Leclerc's ability in Ferrari rules out Alonso as the best candidate whatever current state the bridge is in. Both he and Leclerc are too good on track to get consistently put into a No.2 role so they'll likely look to the midfield if Seb left them as option B is far easier and cheaper to achieve if you still believe in Leclerc.

Vettel will be there for 2020 I am sure. He did say I think after Chinese GP that Mercedes 1-2 is getting boring but I do not think he will retire. If somehow with a Miracle he wins title this year then I think he could retire then. I also think Alonso is not a good option for Ferrari. They need stability and calmness in the team. It will be ironic if Hulk takes Ricciardo place in RBR next year. lol. I do not believe this rumor as well.

Harpo wrote:

kleefton wrote: As to why Rbr would want Hulk; well they realize Merc and Ferrari have stronger lineups. They need one too if they want to realistically win the constructors championship. Hulk is probably the best choice because as mentioned he won’t ruffle any feathers and he will not be way off Max’s pace on a consistent basis like Gasly is. But he also won’t challenge Max, which is very important too for the team harmony.

If that's the aim, they could as well keep Gasly...
Now, I'm ready to bet that Gasly will end being considered far better than this forum seem to think he is... I'm not sure that Hulkenberg, or any other driver new to the RBR team, would have done better than Gasly since the start of the season.

When you can't pass a Toro Rosso while Max is beating both Ferraris on track and threatening a Mercedes I'm afraid that "any other driver" would have done better. Sorry. Gasly cannot touch any of the other top drivers. That is why I think he will ultimately be the "fastest lap champion" at the end of the season. He is too fast for the midfielders because of the Redbull car but he can't hang with the group that he should be in simply because he does not have the skills. He is going to get plenty of opportunities to pit and claim fastest lap though. Well, that's if he doesn't get canned before the season ends.

Hulk to Red Bull feels like vintage Silly Season stuff. Since Vettel's promotion in 2009, every driver who has raced for Red Bull has arrived at the team from Toro Rosso. If they really, genuinely feel Gasly is a) not quick enough and b) isn't ever going to be quick enough (which I think is the more pressing issue) then they'll promote Albon or Kvyat.

As for Vettel retiring, I don't see it either, certainly not this year. I could maybe see him being forced out of Ferrari at the end of 2020 if they decide to replace him, and that if an attractive seat isn't available, he'd contemplate retiring then (although I personally think he would take a sabbatical rather than retire). But it doesn't make sense right now.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:Hulk to Red Bull feels like vintage Silly Season stuff. Since Vettel's promotion in 2009, every driver who has raced for Red Bull has arrived at the team from Toro Rosso. If they really, genuinely feel Gasly is a) not quick enough and b) isn't ever going to be quick enough (which I think is the more pressing issue) then they'll promote Albon or Kvyat.

As for Vettel retiring, I don't see it either, certainly not this year. I could maybe see him being forced out of Ferrari at the end of 2020 if they decide to replace him, and that if an attractive seat isn't available, he'd contemplate retiring then (although I personally think he would take a sabbatical rather than retire). But it doesn't make sense right now.

I think there will be always a seat available for him at Mercedes, whether he would want to take it alongside Hamilton is another matter though?

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:Hulk to Red Bull feels like vintage Silly Season stuff. Since Vettel's promotion in 2009, every driver who has raced for Red Bull has arrived at the team from Toro Rosso. If they really, genuinely feel Gasly is a) not quick enough and b) isn't ever going to be quick enough (which I think is the more pressing issue) then they'll promote Albon or Kvyat.

As for Vettel retiring, I don't see it either, certainly not this year. I could maybe see him being forced out of Ferrari at the end of 2020 if they decide to replace him, and that if an attractive seat isn't available, he'd contemplate retiring then (although I personally think he would take a sabbatical rather than retire). But it doesn't make sense right now.

I think there will be always a seat available for him at Mercedes, whether he would want to take it alongside Hamilton is another matter though?

The idea that Mercedes are keen on signing Vettel is a complete myth IMO. Nothing but rumors just like the idea that Hamilton will drive for Ferrari. I don't think Mercedes have any particular interest in signing him. People put too much stock in the nationality thing. Don't get me wrong; I don't think there's any animosity there but Mercedes know that Max is the logical replacement should Hamilton walk away.

I think if Hamilton decided to retire at the end of the season and they couldn't get Max then Ocon would probably be the guy they went for. I think they have their hearts set on Verstappen and if they had to wait a year with an Ocon/Bottas lineup then they would.