planetf1.com

This is an honest question, it seems as if at every track theres a statement (usually from someone in ercedes..be it Lewis, toto or whoever ) that "oh Ferrari have the advantage here" then Mercedes go out and beat them usually spectacularly

I know it could be mindgames, a bit of kidology (brundle loves that word ) and just general misdirection..or is it a weird good luck charm (in the way theatre people will say breaka leg instead of good luck ), its just its starting to ring hollow, I swear if at the next race I hear Lewis say "ferrari have the advantage here" I will personally fly to the track, get a copy of the driver and onstructor standings show him them and say "it hasn't helped them before your stuffing them in the standings" roll it up and whack him repeatedly with it shouting "YOU have the bloody advantage FFS"..sorry needed to vent there

I get its probably team/driver errors on Ferraris part but on race days they are simply not doing it, though Vettel could be reverting to his old late blooming self (like 2010 and 2012) and Leclerc is talented as hell..just overeager to do well

on a side note Verstappen is really getting results outta that Honda, no-one saw that coming

Yes, Toto, Lewis, and Valtteri have done a lot of "managing expectations" this year. To be fair, a lot of the "Ferrari are Faster" noise is coming from the pundits. It started in Spain and every time Ferrari have recorded the fastest times down the straights the pundits all start asking, "How will Mercedes respond to Team Red's superior speed?"

Mercedes is not going to knock down these stories because it makes them look brilliant when the beat a supposedly "faster" team.

Personally, in my opinion, the real bloviator is Christian Horner when he cries, "We are on the verge of challenging Merc and Ferrari for the championship!"

I can't answer you question, but would just like to say that I'd love to hear Lewis say 'Ferrari have the advantage' in Spain so we can all look forward to seeing Lewis beaten by an intergalactic bounty hunter with a piece of paper

I personally believe that Ferraris season hinges on Barcelona.

Their car performed well there, which is where the Ferrari favouritism for this years championships sprung from. Pundits point to Mercedes second test pace as closing the gap - but Ferrari were managing ERS cooling issues in the second test which leaked into Melbourne. So arguably - Ferrari were the dominant force in Barcelona. They like a smooth circuit track with higher temperatures.

If Mercedes have out developed them to Barcelona - especially with the new packages they will have in Spain - it's starting to look like an intra team battle for the championship.

That said - the new aero regs are very open concepts. There may be a silver bullet (no Mercedes pun intended) that one team may cotton on too. Ferrari have pace - they just need to understand there car and how it operates to get it into the window to be competitive. And that will be key to this season.

Lewis closing comments in Baku were that Mercedes operated on all cylinders to ensure strategy led them to pole. If Vettel had a tow - he probably would of been on pole - and Seb had good pace on the mediums.. so it could of been a different race.

minchy wrote:I can't answer you question, but would just like to say that I'd love to hear Lewis say 'Ferrari have the advantage' in Spain so we can all look forward to seeing Lewis beaten by an intergalactic bounty hunter with a piece of paper

It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Option or Prime wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Judging by what's been happening so far this year we're going back several years to the really bad old days of ultra-narrow operating windows. I thought the philosophy was supposed to make them less sensitive this year but it seems Pirelli didn't get that particular memo

All the "Ferrari is faster, just wait and see" is only a slogan for selling the F1 brand. Of course they are not faster, Mercedes is playing cat and mouse with Ferrari. Both Ferrari drivers are forced to push way too much, and both Vettel and Leclerc has accidents because of that. It is not a question will Ferrari improve, because they will, the question is how much reserve Mercedes still has to respond, and I say, plenty to calmly cover the 2019 season.

Option or Prime wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Mort Canard wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Worth a mention that last year Mercedes' performance improved quite significantly with the introduction of a new thinner tread, and that's the tread that they are using this year, funnily enough.

I don't think there's any method to it, though, tbh. I think whether the car is good or bad with the tyres is as much accident as it is design. Vettel sums it up well:

"I don't think they understand why they are in the window as much as we don't understand that we're not, it's something that we need to work on."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ay-pundits

It's pretty much a lottery

Bahrain.

Vettel has said the car is like a giant rubiks cube, they just need to solve it to unlock the pace. Its happened numerous time before, when a car has had the potential but the team couldn't extract it and then once they did had the best car.

Mclaren in 2005 were nowhere in the first 3-4 races before the car became easily the quickest.

Williams in 2003, the made setup changes that unlocked the speed.

Red Bull have done this in a few seasons, although it did coincide with developments too. 2016 being a good example along with some of the Vettel title years, im thinking 2012.

Mercedes themselves also had the same thing in 2017 with there 'diva'.

Zoue wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Worth a mention that last year Mercedes' performance improved quite significantly with the introduction of a new thinner tread, and that's the tread that they are using this year, funnily enough.

I don't think there's any method to it, though, tbh. I think whether the car is good or bad with the tyres is as much accident as it is design. Vettel sums it up well:

"I don't think they understand why they are in the window as much as we don't understand that we're not, it's something that we need to work on."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ay-pundits

It's pretty much a lottery

Wasn't just the tread thickness. There was also the matter of the cooling ducts through the hubs and into the wheels. I would say that both the thinner tires and cooler wheels made Merc come around right last year toward the end.

Have to wonder what Pirelli will do when they have to build tires that need to function without tire warmers.

Mort Canard wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Worth a mention that last year Mercedes' performance improved quite significantly with the introduction of a new thinner tread, and that's the tread that they are using this year, funnily enough.

I don't think there's any method to it, though, tbh. I think whether the car is good or bad with the tyres is as much accident as it is design. Vettel sums it up well:

"I don't think they understand why they are in the window as much as we don't understand that we're not, it's something that we need to work on."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ay-pundits

It's pretty much a lottery

Wasn't just the treat thickness. There was also the matter of the cooling ducts through the hubs and into the wheels. I would say that both the thinner tires and cooler wheels made Merc come around right last year toward the end.

Have to wonder what Pirelli will do when they have to build tires that need to function without tire warmers.

Then the races will be decided according to who is the best at warming up the tyres on the warm-up lap.

Option or Prime wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Yes with overheating problems and they spent most of the season trying to sort it out.

Lt. Drebin wrote:All the "Ferrari is faster, just wait and see" is only a slogan for selling the F1 brand. Of course they are not faster, Mercedes is playing cat and mouse with Ferrari. Both Ferrari drivers are forced to push way too much, and both Vettel and Leclerc has accidents because of that. It is not a question will Ferrari improve, because they will, the question is how much reserve Mercedes still has to respond, and I say, plenty to calmly cover the 2019 season.

Vettel was pushing too hard under pressure from Hamilton in Bahrain because of the inferior Ferrari whilst his teammate waltzed away from him, Leclerc crashed in the inferior Ferrari in Baku, he had only been the quickest driver all weekend because he was over driving the car?

Zoue wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Worth a mention that last year Mercedes' performance improved quite significantly with the introduction of a new thinner tread, and that's the tread that they are using this year, funnily enough.

I don't think there's any method to it, though, tbh. I think whether the car is good or bad with the tyres is as much accident as it is design. Vettel sums it up well:

"I don't think they understand why they are in the window as much as we don't understand that we're not, it's something that we need to work on."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ay-pundits

It's pretty much a lottery

It's kind of an oxymoron unpredictable tyres that produce predictable results as some might say?

Mort Canard wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Worth a mention that last year Mercedes' performance improved quite significantly with the introduction of a new thinner tread, and that's the tread that they are using this year, funnily enough.

I don't think there's any method to it, though, tbh. I think whether the car is good or bad with the tyres is as much accident as it is design. Vettel sums it up well:

"I don't think they understand why they are in the window as much as we don't understand that we're not, it's something that we need to work on."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ay-pundits

It's pretty much a lottery

Wasn't just the treat thickness. There was also the matter of the cooling ducts through the hubs and into the wheels. I would say that both the thinner tires and cooler wheels made Merc come around right last year toward the end.

Have to wonder what Pirelli will do when they have to build tires that need to function without tire warmers.

I would imagine that low profile tyres will not have the same warm up problems because you don't have nearly as much captive air inside of them?

Deleted.

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

Zoue wrote:It's all about the tyres. If Ferrari find a way to get them switched on (and keep them switched on), they'll be competitive as underneath it all the car doesn't look half bad. But this year looks to be a tyre championship more than anything else so it'll boil down to that. Ferrari aren't the only ones struggling in that regard but they're certainly the ones in the spotlight

Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Worth a mention that last year Mercedes' performance improved quite significantly with the introduction of a new thinner tread, and that's the tread that they are using this year, funnily enough.

I don't think there's any method to it, though, tbh. I think whether the car is good or bad with the tyres is as much accident as it is design. Vettel sums it up well:

"I don't think they understand why they are in the window as much as we don't understand that we're not, it's something that we need to work on."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ay-pundits

It's pretty much a lottery

It's kind of an oxymoron unpredictable tyres that produce predictable results as some might say?

I don't think anything about this season has been predictable yet! Every race seems to have its own twist. Some like it apparently but it's too WWE for me

pokerman wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

Option or Prime wrote: Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Worth a mention that last year Mercedes' performance improved quite significantly with the introduction of a new thinner tread, and that's the tread that they are using this year, funnily enough.

I don't think there's any method to it, though, tbh. I think whether the car is good or bad with the tyres is as much accident as it is design. Vettel sums it up well:

"I don't think they understand why they are in the window as much as we don't understand that we're not, it's something that we need to work on."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ay-pundits

It's pretty much a lottery

Wasn't just the treat thickness. There was also the matter of the cooling ducts through the hubs and into the wheels. I would say that both the thinner tires and cooler wheels made Merc come around right last year toward the end.

Have to wonder what Pirelli will do when they have to build tires that need to function without tire warmers.

I would imagine that low profile tyres will not have the same warm up problems because you don't have nearly as much captive air inside of them?

I certainly hope so. These tyres are garbage

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

Option or Prime wrote: Which is somewhat ironic, which team had the exact same problem last year, wasn't it Mercedes?

Worth a mention that last year Mercedes' performance improved quite significantly with the introduction of a new thinner tread, and that's the tread that they are using this year, funnily enough.

I don't think there's any method to it, though, tbh. I think whether the car is good or bad with the tyres is as much accident as it is design. Vettel sums it up well:

"I don't think they understand why they are in the window as much as we don't understand that we're not, it's something that we need to work on."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ay-pundits

It's pretty much a lottery

It's kind of an oxymoron unpredictable tyres that produce predictable results as some might say?

I don't think anything about this season has been predictable yet! Every race seems to have its own twist. Some like it apparently but it's too WWE for me

Mercedes 1-2's are not predictable then?

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

Worth a mention that last year Mercedes' performance improved quite significantly with the introduction of a new thinner tread, and that's the tread that they are using this year, funnily enough.

I don't think there's any method to it, though, tbh. I think whether the car is good or bad with the tyres is as much accident as it is design. Vettel sums it up well:

"I don't think they understand why they are in the window as much as we don't understand that we're not, it's something that we need to work on."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ay-pundits

It's pretty much a lottery

It's kind of an oxymoron unpredictable tyres that produce predictable results as some might say?

I don't think anything about this season has been predictable yet! Every race seems to have its own twist. Some like it apparently but it's too WWE for me

Mercedes 1-2's are not predictable then?

Well I've already said nothing has been predictable in the post you replied to. Doesn't nothing effectively cover everything?

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote: It's kind of an oxymoron unpredictable tyres that produce predictable results as some might say?

I don't think anything about this season has been predictable yet! Every race seems to have its own twist. Some like it apparently but it's too WWE for me

Mercedes 1-2's are not predictable then?

Well I've already said nothing has been predictable in the post you replied to. Doesn't nothing effectively cover everything?

Fair enough.

pokerman wrote:Mercedes 1-2's are not predictable then?

I think you just need to give a look at the various forum games to see that they aren't!

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:Mercedes 1-2's are not predictable then?

I think you just need to give a look at the various forum games to see that they aren't!

Indeed, there are some though that just look at the results and say that F1 is so predictable.

Next two races Spain and Monaco. I think Max is going to beat at least one of the Ferrari if not both. In Canada Ferrari should have upper hand due to engine performance, especially in qualifying. I think RBR are going to beat them and challenge them consistently from second half of the season considering in Baku RBR had a positive weekend. Hopefully all top 3 teams will be close.

Ferrari peaked last year and are now in a bit of chaos. They should have taken another year before changing drivers and changing TP. This given they took some wrong turns in development last year and should have rather re-grouped without changing too many variables especially if they want to challenged a well oiled Merc. I see Ferrari having to defend from RBR this year rather than challenging Merc. They might make a comeback next year at best to challenge Merc.

I don't think Ferrari are in as much of a mess as people think and fundamentally they have a good car. It's just that they are struggling to get the tyres to work and that has an immense impact on performance, more than almost any other component. And I also don't think it's that straightforward a fix either but at least they know what they need to focus on

AravJ wrote:Ferrari peaked last year and are now in a bit of chaos. They should have taken another year before changing drivers and changing TP. This given they took some wrong turns in development last year and should have rather re-grouped without changing too many variables especially if they want to challenged a well oiled Merc. I see Ferrari having to defend from RBR this year rather than challenging Merc. They might make a comeback next year at best to challenge Merc.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lecl ... e/4379809/

Villeneuve has similar thoughts.

Covalent wrote:

AravJ wrote:Ferrari peaked last year and are now in a bit of chaos. They should have taken another year before changing drivers and changing TP. This given they took some wrong turns in development last year and should have rather re-grouped without changing too many variables especially if they want to challenged a well oiled Merc. I see Ferrari having to defend from RBR this year rather than challenging Merc. They might make a comeback next year at best to challenge Merc.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lecl ... e/4379809/

Villeneuve has similar thoughts.

I'm just wondering how long can you afford to put all the eggs in the Vettel basket as it was Vettel himself that came up short in 2018 and he was also partly to blame for 2017.

In respect to Leclerc if they hadn't signed him the issues Vettel has had with the car would have been transposed into the car simply not being good enough.

pokerman wrote:

Covalent wrote:

AravJ wrote:Ferrari peaked last year and are now in a bit of chaos. They should have taken another year before changing drivers and changing TP. This given they took some wrong turns in development last year and should have rather re-grouped without changing too many variables especially if they want to challenged a well oiled Merc. I see Ferrari having to defend from RBR this year rather than challenging Merc. They might make a comeback next year at best to challenge Merc.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lecl ... e/4379809/

Villeneuve has similar thoughts.

I'm just wondering how long can you afford to put all the eggs in the Vettel basket as it was Vettel himself that came up short in 2018 and he was also partly to blame for 2017.

In respect to Leclerc if they hadn't signed him the issues Vettel has had with the car would have been transposed into the car simply not being good enough.

Yeah I'm inclined to agree that Leclerc being there is not the issue and it's not something anyone should be looking to scapegoat

Covalent wrote:

AravJ wrote:Ferrari peaked last year and are now in a bit of chaos. They should have taken another year before changing drivers and changing TP. This given they took some wrong turns in development last year and should have rather re-grouped without changing too many variables especially if they want to challenged a well oiled Merc. I see Ferrari having to defend from RBR this year rather than challenging Merc. They might make a comeback next year at best to challenge Merc.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lecl ... e/4379809/

Villeneuve has similar thoughts.

You are reading.... Villeneuve???

Siao7 wrote:

Covalent wrote:

AravJ wrote:Ferrari peaked last year and are now in a bit of chaos. They should have taken another year before changing drivers and changing TP. This given they took some wrong turns in development last year and should have rather re-grouped without changing too many variables especially if they want to challenged a well oiled Merc. I see Ferrari having to defend from RBR this year rather than challenging Merc. They might make a comeback next year at best to challenge Merc.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lecl ... e/4379809/

Villeneuve has similar thoughts.

You are reading.... Villeneuve???

Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

Covalent wrote:

AravJ wrote:Ferrari peaked last year and are now in a bit of chaos. They should have taken another year before changing drivers and changing TP. This given they took some wrong turns in development last year and should have rather re-grouped without changing too many variables especially if they want to challenged a well oiled Merc. I see Ferrari having to defend from RBR this year rather than challenging Merc. They might make a comeback next year at best to challenge Merc.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lecl ... e/4379809/

Villeneuve has similar thoughts.

You are reading.... Villeneuve???

Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.

And? I'm not following!

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

Covalent wrote:

AravJ wrote:Ferrari peaked last year and are now in a bit of chaos. They should have taken another year before changing drivers and changing TP. This given they took some wrong turns in development last year and should have rather re-grouped without changing too many variables especially if they want to challenged a well oiled Merc. I see Ferrari having to defend from RBR this year rather than challenging Merc. They might make a comeback next year at best to challenge Merc.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lecl ... e/4379809/

Villeneuve has similar thoughts.

You are reading.... Villeneuve???

Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.

And? I'm not following!

A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

Covalent wrote:https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lecl ... e/4379809/

Villeneuve has similar thoughts.

You are reading.... Villeneuve???

Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.

And? I'm not following!

A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?

Did he agree? I thought he just posted a link backing up what another poster had said?

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote: You are reading.... Villeneuve???

Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.

And? I'm not following!

A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?

Did he agree? I thought he just posted a link backing up what another poster had said?

Very true!

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Well Covalent would be a fan of Vettel.

And? I'm not following!

A Vettel fan agreeing with Villenueve that Ferrari should have kept Kimi because it was a better working environment for Vettel?

Did he agree? I thought he just posted a link backing up what another poster had said?

A post that said that Ferrari should have retained Kimi, the link backing up what the poster said.