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Kubica 2019
I was a Doubter and still am 43%  43%  [ 22 ]
I was a Doubter but not any more 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
I wasn't a Doubter and I'm still not 14%  14%  [ 7 ]
I wasn't a Doubter but I am now 20%  20%  [ 10 ]
Doubter but still too early to say 12%  12%  [ 6 ]
Not a Doubter but still too early to say 10%  10%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 51
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:18 pm 
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Kubica feels he has silenced his doubters.

Has he?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:47 pm 
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Depends on what doubters he is talking about.

He has silenced those who thought he could never drive in F1 again.

But I don’t think he will ever be a serious competitor again. He will drive near the back for a few seasons and then disappear, IMO.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:21 pm 
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it's impossible to tell how competitive he is. By Williams own admission his car is completely different to his team mates.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:53 pm 
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I think he's probably silenced the worst of them. After Australia there were people who were seriously claiming he was a second off Russel's pace, and I don't think that claim is supportable anymore.

People who just think he's not as quick as he used to be and shouldn't have come back will never be disproven, however.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:14 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Depends on what doubters he is talking about.

He has silenced those who thought he could never drive in F1 again.

But I don’t think he will ever be a serious competitor again. He will drive near the back for a few seasons and then disappear, IMO.

Yeah it can be quite ambiguous?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:49 pm 
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I am still unsure what he's trying to prove here in F1.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:22 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
I am still unsure what he's trying to prove here in F1.

That's also a good question. If he's trying to prove that he can overcome his injury and drive an F1 car, job done. If he's trying to prove that he should have been a world champion without his accident, that's impossible to prove in a 2019 Williams.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:12 am 
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When he beats George Russell, I will say he has proved something. Not a whole lot, but he will have proved something.
Robert has not even out-qualified Russell yet this year.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:19 am 
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He was silenced the doubters that said he physically couldn't race in F1. I think to be fair, the Williams is rather unpredictable at the moment so to expect results is asking too much. Kubica is a very intelligent driver. If it is possible for him to score points in an unpredictable or wet race, I believe he will.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:35 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
When he beats George Russell, I will say he has proved something. Not a whole lot, but he will have proved something.
Robert has not even out-qualified Russell yet this year.


I doubt if he'll ever do this. His physical limitations are sadly still prominent enough to cripple him. But he's surely inspired many more drivers who may be having similar disabilities.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:58 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
He has silenced those who thought he could never drive in F1 again.

But I don’t think he will ever be a serious competitor again. He will drive near the back for a few seasons and then disappear, IMO.


Few seasons means 2 at least. Let him complete one at the back, first.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:13 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Depends on what doubters he is talking about.

He has silenced those who thought he could never drive in F1 again.

But I don’t think he will ever be a serious competitor again. He will drive near the back for a few seasons and then disappear, IMO.
The below article from Racefans.net indicates he was talking about his physical ability to do an F1 race

Although Kubica has faced a difficult return to F1 in a car which is far off the pace, he said a “very good outcome” is that his race performances have answered those who questioned whether the injuries he sustained in 2011 would keep him from racing.

“I didn’t have doubts, but for sure as I haven’t done long races in the past the last years there is always kind of a question mark. My physical level is good and I didn’t have problems during the races which was something probably most of the people were worried. It came out that we shouldn’t be worried about this. I was expecting it.”


https://www.racefans.net/2019/04/22/kubica-f1-completely-different-in-some-ways-since-return/


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:52 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
When he beats George Russell, I will say he has proved something. Not a whole lot, but he will have proved something.
Robert has not even out-qualified Russell yet this year.

To be fair he has come damn close

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:54 am 
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The only thing that can be silenced in 2019 Williams is a driver hope...

I'm not sure how many of the rumors are true but if even Williams engineers and Russell admitted the fact that Williams cars are giving totally different telemetry data on the same settings then it's really hard to judge. He was within half a tenth to Russell in quali in last 2 races which I would say it's not bad at all with one hand and after 8 years of break. Also Russell is not a Stroll or Sirotkin, he might be well on the Leclerc level or higher based on the lower series, he just can't show it for obvious reason. The rumor was also that in free practice in China Williams switched the floor and front wing in the cars and Kubica was faster in both sessions with Russell's parts.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:50 am 
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Mayox wrote:
The only thing that can be silenced in 2019 Williams is a driver hope...

I'm not sure how many of the rumors are true but if even Williams engineers and Russell admitted the fact that Williams cars are giving totally different telemetry data on the same settings then it's really hard to judge. He was within half a tenth to Russell in quali in last 2 races which I would say it's not bad at all with one hand and after 8 years of break. Also Russell is not a Stroll or Sirotkin, he might be well on the Leclerc level or higher based on the lower series, he just can't show it for obvious reason. The rumor was also that in free practice in China Williams switched the floor and front wing in the cars and Kubica was faster in both sessions with Russell's parts.


Yeah that is quite scary to think that they can't even replicate another car's characteristics using the exact same parts. They are in bigger trouble than I thought. Or is it just a faulty chassis that needs to be swapped? But yeah, Kubica might be faster than Russell.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:16 am 
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He's shown he can make it back to F1, which in itself is a massive, massive achievement, and one he should be incredibly proud of. A lot of people would've given up a long time ago. Anyone who doubted that would be the case has been proven wrong.

But let's be honest, in terms of performance he's slower than a rookie. Yes, George Russell may go onto have an exceptional F1 career, and I'm by no means belittling George Russell (anyone who posts regularly on here knows I follow the feeder series and am fully aware of Russell's talent). But the fact is Kubica's yet to show anything to suggest he'd ever be able to reach the level he was at prior to his accident, and of the two drivers has seemed the more frustrated and the more likely to start criticising the team. I'd be quite surprised if he's at Williams next year as I think he'll leave the team (probably end up as a reserve/development driver at Ferrari) and I wouldn't be overly shocked if he didn't even make it to the end of 2019.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:36 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
He's shown he can make it back to F1, which in itself is a massive, massive achievement, and one he should be incredibly proud of. A lot of people would've given up a long time ago. Anyone who doubted that would be the case has been proven wrong.

But let's be honest, in terms of performance he's slower than a rookie. Yes, George Russell may go onto have an exceptional F1 career, and I'm by no means belittling George Russell (anyone who posts regularly on here knows I follow the feeder series and am fully aware of Russell's talent). But the fact is Kubica's yet to show anything to suggest he'd ever be able to reach the level he was at prior to his accident, and of the two drivers has seemed the more frustrated and the more likely to start criticising the team. I'd be quite surprised if he's at Williams next year as I think he'll leave the team (probably end up as a reserve/development driver at Ferrari) and I wouldn't be overly shocked if he didn't even make it to the end of 2019.


You can't compare Russell and Kubica. Williams have confirmed their cars are doing completely different things.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:14 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
He's shown he can make it back to F1, which in itself is a massive, massive achievement, and one he should be incredibly proud of. A lot of people would've given up a long time ago. Anyone who doubted that would be the case has been proven wrong.

But let's be honest, in terms of performance he's slower than a rookie. Yes, George Russell may go onto have an exceptional F1 career, and I'm by no means belittling George Russell (anyone who posts regularly on here knows I follow the feeder series and am fully aware of Russell's talent). But the fact is Kubica's yet to show anything to suggest he'd ever be able to reach the level he was at prior to his accident, and of the two drivers has seemed the more frustrated and the more likely to start criticising the team. I'd be quite surprised if he's at Williams next year as I think he'll leave the team (probably end up as a reserve/development driver at Ferrari) and I wouldn't be overly shocked if he didn't even make it to the end of 2019.


You can't compare Russell and Kubica. Williams have confirmed their cars are doing completely different things.


Have they said why? It might be that they are just trying different things out.

But my question is then if they end up in a situation next year where they can only keep one of them, how do they decide who to keep if their cars are different.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:06 pm 
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He has silenced them in that he has proven them completely right.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:27 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
He's shown he can make it back to F1, which in itself is a massive, massive achievement, and one he should be incredibly proud of. A lot of people would've given up a long time ago. Anyone who doubted that would be the case has been proven wrong.

But let's be honest, in terms of performance he's slower than a rookie. Yes, George Russell may go onto have an exceptional F1 career, and I'm by no means belittling George Russell (anyone who posts regularly on here knows I follow the feeder series and am fully aware of Russell's talent). But the fact is Kubica's yet to show anything to suggest he'd ever be able to reach the level he was at prior to his accident, and of the two drivers has seemed the more frustrated and the more likely to start criticising the team. I'd be quite surprised if he's at Williams next year as I think he'll leave the team (probably end up as a reserve/development driver at Ferrari) and I wouldn't be overly shocked if he didn't even make it to the end of 2019.


You can't compare Russell and Kubica. Williams have confirmed their cars are doing completely different things.


Have they said why? It might be that they are just trying different things out.

But my question is then if they end up in a situation next year where they can only keep one of them, how do they decide who to keep if their cars are different.


They can't work out why. It's quite bizarre. They've crossed parts in practice and testing and confirmed they seem to make the car behave completely differently.

Sadly they probably keep whoever pays them the most money.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:19 pm 
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I pity him. His heritage was solid and well established, now he is moldering his heritage. For what?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:59 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
He's shown he can make it back to F1, which in itself is a massive, massive achievement, and one he should be incredibly proud of. A lot of people would've given up a long time ago. Anyone who doubted that would be the case has been proven wrong.

But let's be honest, in terms of performance he's slower than a rookie. Yes, George Russell may go onto have an exceptional F1 career, and I'm by no means belittling George Russell (anyone who posts regularly on here knows I follow the feeder series and am fully aware of Russell's talent). But the fact is Kubica's yet to show anything to suggest he'd ever be able to reach the level he was at prior to his accident, and of the two drivers has seemed the more frustrated and the more likely to start criticising the team. I'd be quite surprised if he's at Williams next year as I think he'll leave the team (probably end up as a reserve/development driver at Ferrari) and I wouldn't be overly shocked if he didn't even make it to the end of 2019.


You can't compare Russell and Kubica. Williams have confirmed their cars are doing completely different things.


Have they said why? It might be that they are just trying different things out.

But my question is then if they end up in a situation next year where they can only keep one of them, how do they decide who to keep if their cars are different.


They can't work out why. It's quite bizarre. They've crossed parts in practice and testing and confirmed they seem to make the car behave completely differently.

Sadly they probably keep whoever pays them the most money.


Yeah you are probably right about whoever pays the most money, unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:58 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
I pity him. His heritage was solid and well established, now he is moldering his heritage. For what?

The heritage was actually not fulfilled because he got injured when he was 25, I see it more as unfinished business but if his injuries will not allow that then he will get a pass much like Schumacher did.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:10 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
I pity him. His heritage was solid and well established, now he is moldering his heritage. For what?

Not in the least

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:17 am 
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The fact he has managed to get back to F1 is a measure of his talent, even if it was a shadow of where it was and a fraction of what it potentially would have become.

However, the signs are Kubica is not a top level driver any more and may actually be one of the slowest on the grid - although the Williams is so bad relative to the rest of the teams, it makes that assessment have a lot of assumption, and probably isn't entirely fair.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Q1 at Baku. Kubica the wall!!
Doubters 1, Kubica 0.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Q1 at Baku. Kubica the wall!!
Doubters 1, Kubica 0.

Time for your Leclerc doubter stats now too

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:05 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Q1 at Baku. Kubica the wall!!
Doubters 1, Kubica 0.

Time for your Leclerc doubter stats now too

Charles has at least one in the doubters column and a ton of points in his column from positively giddy team red fans. :nod:

Can young Chuckles fulfill all their hopes and dreams? Dunno. :?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Badgeronimous wrote:
The fact he has managed to get back to F1 is a measure of his talent, even if it was a shadow of where it was and a fraction of what it potentially would have become.

However, the signs are Kubica is not a top level driver any more and may actually be one of the slowest on the grid - although the Williams is so bad relative to the rest of the teams, it makes that assessment have a lot of assumption, and probably isn't entirely fair.

It was actually money that got him back into F1.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:48 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Q1 at Baku. Kubica the wall!!
Doubters 1, Kubica 0.

Time for your Leclerc doubter stats now too

Well at least Leclerc was fast before he crashed, Kubica yet again trailing his teammate.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:35 pm 
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He's the only driver in F1 who never started in Baku before. Good news from Williams is that his car will be repaired for tomorrow. I wasn't sure...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:45 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Q1 at Baku. Kubica the wall!!
Doubters 1, Kubica 0.

Time for your Leclerc doubter stats now too


Might well warrant it's own thread actually!!

Fwiw, my opinion on Kubica return so far. I didn't know what to expect but however impressive his return is as an achievement (and it is) he doesn't appear yet at least to be able to drive at the level he was when he was driving previously. So nice as the story might be, I dont see the point. Just 20 seats in F1 and a team that needs to be doing anything they can to find even an extra tenth. I'm not writing him off just yet, he was never going through just Swan back in where he left off but he'll need to start giving Russel the occasional beating if he is to really silence his doubters. And thats not putting Russel down either, I watched his F2 campaign and it was impressive.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:12 am 
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Badgeronimous wrote:
The fact he has managed to get back to F1 is a measure of his talent, even if it was a shadow of where it was and a fraction of what it potentially would have become.

However, the signs are Kubica is not a top level driver any more and may actually be one of the slowest on the grid - although the Williams is so bad relative to the rest of the teams, it makes that assessment have a lot of assumption, and probably isn't entirely fair.


No. It's a measure of the size of his wallet, and the surgeons who worked on him arm. Got tits all to do with his talent.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:46 pm 
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I wanted him to do well, but i just dont think its possible anymore. Will be surprised if he lasts the season.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:57 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Q1 at Baku. Kubica the wall!!
Doubters 1, Kubica 0.

Time for your Leclerc doubter stats now too

Well at least Leclerc was fast before he crashed, Kubica yet again trailing his teammate.

All well and good but IMO Leclerc cost Ferrari the entire weekend. Qualy got pushed out later, the temps changed and suddenly Vettel couldn't run as fast as the Mercs anymore. He also had to switch from their preferred medium tyre to the soft to get through Q2. And here we are another Merc 1-2 later

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:00 pm 
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So in Quali against George Russsell Robert is 0 for 4 this season.
In the races against George Russsell Robert is 0 for 4 this season.

IMO the doubters have every right to be in full chorus about Kubica's abilities. Their clamor will only get louder.

I still say that Kubica's first task is to beat Russell on outright speed in Quali or a race.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:16 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Q1 at Baku. Kubica the wall!!
Doubters 1, Kubica 0.

Time for your Leclerc doubter stats now too

Well at least Leclerc was fast before he crashed, Kubica yet again trailing his teammate.

All well and good but IMO Leclerc cost Ferrari the entire weekend. Qualy got pushed out later, the temps changed and suddenly Vettel couldn't run as fast as the Mercs anymore. He also had to switch from their preferred medium tyre to the soft to get through Q2. And here we are another Merc 1-2 later

Tbh I think switching to the Softs did Vettel a favour. The medium was definitely the wrong tyre to start on


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:50 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Q1 at Baku. Kubica the wall!!
Doubters 1, Kubica 0.

Time for your Leclerc doubter stats now too

Well at least Leclerc was fast before he crashed, Kubica yet again trailing his teammate.

All well and good but IMO Leclerc cost Ferrari the entire weekend. Qualy got pushed out later, the temps changed and suddenly Vettel couldn't run as fast as the Mercs anymore. He also had to switch from their preferred medium tyre to the soft to get through Q2. And here we are another Merc 1-2 later

True but who would you sign Leclerc or Kubica?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Q1 at Baku. Kubica the wall!!
Doubters 1, Kubica 0.

Time for your Leclerc doubter stats now too

Well at least Leclerc was fast before he crashed, Kubica yet again trailing his teammate.

All well and good but IMO Leclerc cost Ferrari the entire weekend. Qualy got pushed out later, the temps changed and suddenly Vettel couldn't run as fast as the Mercs anymore. He also had to switch from their preferred medium tyre to the soft to get through Q2. And here we are another Merc 1-2 later

Tbh I think switching to the Softs did Vettel a favour. The medium was definitely the wrong tyre to start on

Yeah I'd go with that.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:05 am 
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Link the source, where, when he said it.


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