planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:59 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 1153
Just for fun, I'll keep a log of their average as the season progresses:

After China:

Hamilton: 8
Raikkonen: 8

Albon: 7.7
Bottas: 7.7
Verstappen: 7.7
Leclerc: 7.3
Hulkenberg: 7
Russel: 7

Norris: 6.7
Perez: 6.7
Ricciardo: 6.5
Sainz: 6.3
Magnussen: 6
Stroll: 6

Kubica: 5.7
Kvyat: 5.7
Vettel: 5.7
Gasly: 5.3
Giovanazzi: 5.3
Grosjean: 5.3


Seems a fair assessment? Albon doing as well Bottas? Vettel on a par with Kubica? The Hulk edging the Honey Badger?

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2135
On the basis of just three races, I think Max, Lewis and Kimi have been the best thus far. I know we've seen how Kimi measures up vs Vettel and that Gio probably is quite weak right now, but I can't help but be impressed by how he's handled himself in the midfield. I think he's free, happy and performing at a high level, albeit thus far just for a three-race stretch.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:37 pm
Posts: 212
Lewis
Max

Kimi
Hulk

Bottas
Leclerc

Albon
Perez
Norris
Seb
Daniel

Gasly
Grosjean
KMag
Stroll
Kyvat

Giovanazzi


I cannot group the below drivers because car is too slow or too many problems in the race:
Russell
Kubica
sainz

These are just groupings, there is no order within a group.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:49 am
Posts: 885
Too few races and so many reliability, strategy or other issues for many drivers/teams - so some individual good/bad performances - but we need more races to tell


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 956
Location: Kansas
F1Oz wrote:
Too few races and so many reliability, strategy or other issues for many drivers/teams - so some individual good/bad performances - but we need more races to tell


Is that not why we run a full season each year??? Ya know, to sort them out and tell who's better?? :lol:

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1706
Far too soon IMO. Verstappen would have been pretty much last the previous year if we based it on even a few more races than this. But he turned it around. This just doesn't show anything and i don't really see much point in starting until past half way in the season. I don't know where the stats are made up? all these decimal points? how are the williams drivers numbers decided? Grosjean just hasn't had enough running time so him being last looks very unfair. He has looked about matched to Magnussen overall if we judge what is fair. Sainz has also hardly has a representative race.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9600
Looks about right to me.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 1153
I think some of you are missing the idea.

This is rating of the drivers over the season SO FAR.

Not an indication of their previous achievements, their overall potential or likely season-end standings.

Just that of the 3 races to date who is doing a good job and who isn't...

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1706
DOLOMITE wrote:
I think some of you are missing the idea.

This is rating of the drivers over the season SO FAR.

Not an indication of their previous achievements, their overall potential or likely season-end standings.

Just that of the 3 races to date who is doing a good job and who isn't...


But does this mean Grosjean isn't doing a good job? Given he's got the lowest rating? He's certainly been decent so far so i don't think these stats reflect on that at all. He has beaten his team mate quite comfortably last race. Qualified ahead 2 times and looked about matched pace wise in Australia until he retired. Was a bit of a mess in qualifying in Bahrain and Magnussen may have been very good then, but we didn't get to see Grosjean because he retired again. This is why i think it just isn't fair to rate drivers that have had so much bad luck in just 3 races. Fair enough rating the other drivers i guess though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3129
Location: UK
Not too much there to disagree with. I would put Verstappen at the top though, he has been excellent. I really think that the Red Bull is currently closer to the midfield than it is to the front two teams and that he is making the difference.

It's rather harsh on Vettel if you ask me. Bahrain was a disaster but he's done just fine in the other two races and is currently winning the qualifying battle against Leclerc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
j man wrote:
Not too much there to disagree with. I would put Verstappen at the top though, he has been excellent. I really think that the Red Bull is currently closer to the midfield than it is to the front two teams and that he is making the difference.

It's rather harsh on Vettel if you ask me. Bahrain was a disaster but he's done just fine in the other two races and is currently winning the qualifying battle against Leclerc.

:thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15026
It seems to me more of a rating based on who is exceeding expectations rather than who is doing best.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 1153
mikeyg123 wrote:
It seems to me more of a rating based on who is exceeding expectations rather than who is doing best.


I'd agree with that.

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:49 am
Posts: 885
There are so many ratings this season that seem ridiculous - it's only been a few races and reliability or luck haven't been regarded

Mind you - the 'official' F1 site said that Hulkenburg was a top 5 driver for China - despite not qualifying ahead of his team mate, being behind his team mate etc - go figure


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
DOLOMITE wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It seems to me more of a rating based on who is exceeding expectations rather than who is doing best.


I'd agree with that.

just thinking about this, and aren't the two somewhat related? I mean, you expect Hamilton to beat Bottas, so if he does it's not necessarily an indicator (on its own) that he's performed. However, if Bottas beats Hamilton then he's exceeding expectations so chances are we'll say he's driven really well (excluding special circumstances like luck or component failures etc).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15026
Zoue wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It seems to me more of a rating based on who is exceeding expectations rather than who is doing best.


I'd agree with that.

just thinking about this, and aren't the two somewhat related? I mean, you expect Hamilton to beat Bottas, so if he does it's not necessarily an indicator (on its own) that he's performed. However, if Bottas beats Hamilton then he's exceeding expectations so chances are we'll say he's driven really well (excluding special circumstances like luck or component failures etc).


Yeah there's some relation. I think having a car that is quicker than people expected also helps. There is nothing so fatal for a driver as a car that turns out slower than their team usually produce whilst being partnered with a team mate they can't convincingly beat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 1153
After Baku:

Raikkonen: 8.3
Bottas: 8
Hamilton: 8

Verstappen: 7.8
Albon: 7.3
Leclerc: 7.3
Norris: 7
Perez: 7
Russel: 7

Sainz: 6.8
Stroll: 6.5
Hulkenberg: 6.3
Ricciardo: 6.1
Vettel: 6

Gasly: 5.8
Kvyat: 5.8
Magnussen: 5.8
Giovanazzi: 5.5
Kubica: 5.5
Grosjean: 5.3

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15026
Interested to know how anyone would score Verstappen lower than an 8 average for this season. He's been at least an 8 for every race so far for me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 1153
mikeyg123 wrote:
Interested to know how anyone would score Verstappen lower than an 8 average for this season. He's been at least an 8 for every race so far for me.


They gave him a 7 for Bahrain

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 6891
Location: Michigan, USA
mikeyg123 wrote:
Interested to know how anyone would score Verstappen lower than an 8 average for this season. He's been at least an 8 for every race so far for me.

I think that has to depend on what you think of Gasly. It's the same question we had last year with Alonso and Vandoorne - is Verstappen working wonders with an uncompetitive Red Bull, or is Gasly embarrassing himself in a car that's only a little off the Ferrari? Which one you believe has a huge effect on how you rate Max's season.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31128
mikeyg123 wrote:
Interested to know how anyone would score Verstappen lower than an 8 average for this season. He's been at least an 8 for every race so far for me.

I'd mainly give him 9s and 10s, generally speaking I often find the ratings a bit unfathomable and don't really put much store in them although I was happy to see Hamilton come top last year. :)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15026
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Interested to know how anyone would score Verstappen lower than an 8 average for this season. He's been at least an 8 for every race so far for me.

I think that has to depend on what you think of Gasly. It's the same question we had last year with Alonso and Vandoorne - is Verstappen working wonders with an uncompetitive Red Bull, or is Gasly embarrassing himself in a car that's only a little off the Ferrari? Which one you believe has a huge effect on how you rate Max's season.


Hmm maybe. Is there any race yet though where Max could have finished higher. IMO he's the only driver to get absolutely everything out of every weekend so far.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31128
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Interested to know how anyone would score Verstappen lower than an 8 average for this season. He's been at least an 8 for every race so far for me.

I think that has to depend on what you think of Gasly. It's the same question we had last year with Alonso and Vandoorne - is Verstappen working wonders with an uncompetitive Red Bull, or is Gasly embarrassing himself in a car that's only a little off the Ferrari? Which one you believe has a huge effect on how you rate Max's season.


Hmm maybe. Is there any race yet though where Max could have finished higher. IMO he's the only driver to get absolutely everything out of every weekend so far.

I'm impressed by the way he's keeping himself in the game waiting for Red Bull to provide a better car further into the season like they've done these past 2 seasons, although unlike the last 2 seasons he probably wouldn't want to be waiting that long?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Interested to know how anyone would score Verstappen lower than an 8 average for this season. He's been at least an 8 for every race so far for me.

I think that has to depend on what you think of Gasly. It's the same question we had last year with Alonso and Vandoorne - is Verstappen working wonders with an uncompetitive Red Bull, or is Gasly embarrassing himself in a car that's only a little off the Ferrari? Which one you believe has a huge effect on how you rate Max's season.


Hmm maybe. Is there any race yet though where Max could have finished higher. IMO he's the only driver to get absolutely everything out of every weekend so far.

Kimi also maybe?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15026
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Interested to know how anyone would score Verstappen lower than an 8 average for this season. He's been at least an 8 for every race so far for me.

I think that has to depend on what you think of Gasly. It's the same question we had last year with Alonso and Vandoorne - is Verstappen working wonders with an uncompetitive Red Bull, or is Gasly embarrassing himself in a car that's only a little off the Ferrari? Which one you believe has a huge effect on how you rate Max's season.


Hmm maybe. Is there any race yet though where Max could have finished higher. IMO he's the only driver to get absolutely everything out of every weekend so far.

Kimi also maybe?


Quite possibly. It's much harder to tell in the midfield though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Interested to know how anyone would score Verstappen lower than an 8 average for this season. He's been at least an 8 for every race so far for me.

I think that has to depend on what you think of Gasly. It's the same question we had last year with Alonso and Vandoorne - is Verstappen working wonders with an uncompetitive Red Bull, or is Gasly embarrassing himself in a car that's only a little off the Ferrari? Which one you believe has a huge effect on how you rate Max's season.


Hmm maybe. Is there any race yet though where Max could have finished higher. IMO he's the only driver to get absolutely everything out of every weekend so far.

Kimi also maybe?


Quite possibly. It's much harder to tell in the midfield though.

True


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 7:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:45 am
Posts: 97
I'd actually put Bottas ahead of both Hamilton and Verstappen so far.

Bottas - 9.0
Verstappen - 8.3
Hamilton - 8.0

yes, I think Hamilton has been lack lustre so far.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15026
dpastern wrote:
I'd actually put Bottas ahead of both Hamilton and Verstappen so far.

Bottas - 9.0
Verstappen - 8.3
Hamilton - 8.0

yes, I think Hamilton has been lack lustre so far.


Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 6891
Location: Michigan, USA
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
I'd actually put Bottas ahead of both Hamilton and Verstappen so far.

Bottas - 9.0
Verstappen - 8.3
Hamilton - 8.0

yes, I think Hamilton has been lack lustre so far.

Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.

Since the OP's rankings seem to be largely influenced by exceeding or failing to exceed expectations, I think there's a good argument for ranking Bottas well above Hamilton in that regard.

In an absolute sense, however, I would say Hamilton has been slightly better. That's still pretty impressive for Bottas, to be only slightly worse than Hamilton.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:45 am
Posts: 97
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
I'd actually put Bottas ahead of both Hamilton and Verstappen so far.

Bottas - 9.0
Verstappen - 8.3
Hamilton - 8.0

yes, I think Hamilton has been lack lustre so far.

Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.

Since the OP's rankings seem to be largely influenced by exceeding or failing to exceed expectations, I think there's a good argument for ranking Bottas well above Hamilton in that regard.

In an absolute sense, however, I would say Hamilton has been slightly better. That's still pretty impressive for Bottas, to be only slightly worse than Hamilton.


Hamilton had pole in Australia, that's it. China and Baku, Bottas had pole. Bharain, Leclerc. Fastest lap? Hamilton has none this year. Bottas has 1 (Australia). 2 wins apiece. Bottas has looked more effective so far imho (and I'm a Hamilton fan!). Lewis wasn't particularly aggressive in the opening lap of Baku - should really have come out ahead imho.

To be fair to Lewis, it seems that this is a repeat of the 2016 season, where the car isn't to his liking and he's having to adapt his driving style rather than just be outright fast naturally. How much that is impacting Lewis' performance is hard to say.

Leclerc gets a 7.8 from me - very fast, good head on his shoulders, but a bit of bad luck, and lack of experience have cost him in my rankings imho. Vettel is languishing down in a 5.5 on my rankings.

I'm actually starting to think that Bottas will win the 2019 WDC - yes. I'm serious.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15026
dpastern wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
I'd actually put Bottas ahead of both Hamilton and Verstappen so far.

Bottas - 9.0
Verstappen - 8.3
Hamilton - 8.0

yes, I think Hamilton has been lack lustre so far.

Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.

Since the OP's rankings seem to be largely influenced by exceeding or failing to exceed expectations, I think there's a good argument for ranking Bottas well above Hamilton in that regard.

In an absolute sense, however, I would say Hamilton has been slightly better. That's still pretty impressive for Bottas, to be only slightly worse than Hamilton.


Hamilton had pole in Australia, that's it. China and Baku, Bottas had pole. Bharain, Leclerc. Fastest lap? Hamilton has none this year. Bottas has 1 (Australia). 2 wins apiece. Bottas has looked more effective so far imho (and I'm a Hamilton fan!). Lewis wasn't particularly aggressive in the opening lap of Baku - should really have come out ahead imho.

To be fair to Lewis, it seems that this is a repeat of the 2016 season, where the car isn't to his liking and he's having to adapt his driving style rather than just be outright fast naturally. How much that is impacting Lewis' performance is hard to say.

Leclerc gets a 7.8 from me - very fast, good head on his shoulders, but a bit of bad luck, and lack of experience have cost him in my rankings imho. Vettel is languishing down in a 5.5 on my rankings.

I'm actually starting to think that Bottas will win the 2019 WDC - yes. I'm serious.


Basically, it's two all in quali and in races. Their performance has been very even.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:54 am
Posts: 144
Max, Charles, valterri.

Lewis, hulk, kimi,

Kvyat, sainz, norris, Perez

Albon, Danny,

Others

Stroll, kubica


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 1153
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
I'd actually put Bottas ahead of both Hamilton and Verstappen so far.

Bottas - 9.0
Verstappen - 8.3
Hamilton - 8.0

yes, I think Hamilton has been lack lustre so far.

Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.

Since the OP's rankings seem to be largely influenced by exceeding or failing to exceed expectations, I think there's a good argument for ranking Bottas well above Hamilton in that regard.

In an absolute sense, however, I would say Hamilton has been slightly better. That's still pretty impressive for Bottas, to be only slightly worse than Hamilton.


Just be clear they are not MY rankings!

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:45 am
Posts: 97
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
I'd actually put Bottas ahead of both Hamilton and Verstappen so far.

Bottas - 9.0
Verstappen - 8.3
Hamilton - 8.0

yes, I think Hamilton has been lack lustre so far.

Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.

Since the OP's rankings seem to be largely influenced by exceeding or failing to exceed expectations, I think there's a good argument for ranking Bottas well above Hamilton in that regard.

In an absolute sense, however, I would say Hamilton has been slightly better. That's still pretty impressive for Bottas, to be only slightly worse than Hamilton.


Hamilton had pole in Australia, that's it. China and Baku, Bottas had pole. Bharain, Leclerc. Fastest lap? Hamilton has none this year. Bottas has 1 (Australia). 2 wins apiece. Bottas has looked more effective so far imho (and I'm a Hamilton fan!). Lewis wasn't particularly aggressive in the opening lap of Baku - should really have come out ahead imho.

To be fair to Lewis, it seems that this is a repeat of the 2016 season, where the car isn't to his liking and he's having to adapt his driving style rather than just be outright fast naturally. How much that is impacting Lewis' performance is hard to say.

Leclerc gets a 7.8 from me - very fast, good head on his shoulders, but a bit of bad luck, and lack of experience have cost him in my rankings imho. Vettel is languishing down in a 5.5 on my rankings.

I'm actually starting to think that Bottas will win the 2019 WDC - yes. I'm serious.


Basically, it's two all in quali and in races. Their performance has been very even.


How did you arrive at 2 all in quali? Bottas has 2 poles, Hamilton 1, Leclerc 1; out of a total of 4 races. By my antiquated maths that's 50% Bottas, 25% Hamilton...

edit: Bottas has dominated Australia and Baku. Hamilton dominated China. Hamilton was VERY lucky in Bahrain (although he did outperform Bottas that weekend I do admit). If Leclerc had not been unlucky in Bahrain, and Vettel his usual clumsy self, Hamilton would have been 3rd in Bahrain, not a winner. So, it'd be 2-1 in wins for Bottas vs Hamilton, and Bottas would be even further ahead on points in the WDC! If we take into account Bottas' bad start in China, that could have been another win for a 3-0 whitewash of Hamilton at this point of the season.

Bottas has most certainly been the far stronger, and far more impressive driver of the 2 Mercedes stars so far. It's like day and night.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15026
dpastern wrote:

How did you arrive at 2 all in quali? Bottas has 2 poles, Hamilton 1, Leclerc 1; out of a total of 4 races. By my antiquated maths that's 50% Bottas, 25% Hamilton...

edit: Bottas has dominated Australia and Baku. Hamilton dominated China. Hamilton was VERY lucky in Bahrain (although he did outperform Bottas that weekend I do admit). If Leclerc had not been unlucky in Bahrain, and Vettel his usual clumsy self, Hamilton would have been 3rd in Bahrain, not a winner. So, it'd be 2-1 in wins for Bottas vs Hamilton, and Bottas would be even further ahead on points in the WDC! If we take into account Bottas' bad start in China, that could have been another win for a 3-0 whitewash of Hamilton at this point of the season.

Bottas has most certainly been the far stronger, and far more impressive driver of the 2 Mercedes stars so far. It's like day and night.


But we are comparing Bottas and Hamilton? Bottas has beaten Hamilton twice in races and quali. Hamilton has outperformed Bottas twice. He hardly dominated Baku either. Hamilton was within a second with 2 laps to go. And had it not been for Hamilton's bad start in Australia it could be 3-1 to Hamilton in races.

I think it's a huge stretch to say that Bottas has been "far stronger" or "far more impressive"

It's been very similar.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
dpastern wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.

Since the OP's rankings seem to be largely influenced by exceeding or failing to exceed expectations, I think there's a good argument for ranking Bottas well above Hamilton in that regard.

In an absolute sense, however, I would say Hamilton has been slightly better. That's still pretty impressive for Bottas, to be only slightly worse than Hamilton.


Hamilton had pole in Australia, that's it. China and Baku, Bottas had pole. Bharain, Leclerc. Fastest lap? Hamilton has none this year. Bottas has 1 (Australia). 2 wins apiece. Bottas has looked more effective so far imho (and I'm a Hamilton fan!). Lewis wasn't particularly aggressive in the opening lap of Baku - should really have come out ahead imho.

To be fair to Lewis, it seems that this is a repeat of the 2016 season, where the car isn't to his liking and he's having to adapt his driving style rather than just be outright fast naturally. How much that is impacting Lewis' performance is hard to say.

Leclerc gets a 7.8 from me - very fast, good head on his shoulders, but a bit of bad luck, and lack of experience have cost him in my rankings imho. Vettel is languishing down in a 5.5 on my rankings.

I'm actually starting to think that Bottas will win the 2019 WDC - yes. I'm serious.


Basically, it's two all in quali and in races. Their performance has been very even.


How did you arrive at 2 all in quali? Bottas has 2 poles, Hamilton 1, Leclerc 1; out of a total of 4 races. By my antiquated maths that's 50% Bottas, 25% Hamilton...

edit: Bottas has dominated Australia and Baku. Hamilton dominated China. Hamilton was VERY lucky in Bahrain (although he did outperform Bottas that weekend I do admit). If Leclerc had not been unlucky in Bahrain, and Vettel his usual clumsy self, Hamilton would have been 3rd in Bahrain, not a winner. So, it'd be 2-1 in wins for Bottas vs Hamilton, and Bottas would be even further ahead on points in the WDC! If we take into account Bottas' bad start in China, that could have been another win for a 3-0 whitewash of Hamilton at this point of the season.

Bottas has most certainly been the far stronger, and far more impressive driver of the 2 Mercedes stars so far. It's like day and night.

well, pole is subject to the competition - if another car is faster then it doesn't matter how fast you are. But in terms of team mate comparisons the Mercedes pair have beaten each other twice.

I don't think Bottas dominated Baku, either. He beat Hamilton, certainly, but the damage was done on Saturday and Bottas only just scraped pole by less than a tenth while Lewis didn't even get the benefit of the tow. Hamilton also said that he messed up the first two corners (due to trying to get track position etc) so clearly he had pace in hand. Bottas won fair and quare but I think dominated is a bit strong.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31128
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
I'd actually put Bottas ahead of both Hamilton and Verstappen so far.

Bottas - 9.0
Verstappen - 8.3
Hamilton - 8.0

yes, I think Hamilton has been lack lustre so far.


Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.

I would say that Hamilton has been slightly better, China was a reverse of Australia, I'm guessing the poster is looking to ignore Hamilton's damaged floor in Australia?

In Bahrain Hamilton passed Bottas on the track and then set off after the Ferraris leaving Bottas far behind, as opposed to Bottas winning the race in Baku under DRS pressure from Hamilton in the closing laps.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31128
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
I'd actually put Bottas ahead of both Hamilton and Verstappen so far.

Bottas - 9.0
Verstappen - 8.3
Hamilton - 8.0

yes, I think Hamilton has been lack lustre so far.

Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.

Since the OP's rankings seem to be largely influenced by exceeding or failing to exceed expectations, I think there's a good argument for ranking Bottas well above Hamilton in that regard.

In an absolute sense, however, I would say Hamilton has been slightly better. That's still pretty impressive for Bottas, to be only slightly worse than Hamilton.


Hamilton had pole in Australia, that's it. China and Baku, Bottas had pole. Bharain, Leclerc. Fastest lap? Hamilton has none this year. Bottas has 1 (Australia). 2 wins apiece. Bottas has looked more effective so far imho (and I'm a Hamilton fan!). Lewis wasn't particularly aggressive in the opening lap of Baku - should really have come out ahead imho.

To be fair to Lewis, it seems that this is a repeat of the 2016 season, where the car isn't to his liking and he's having to adapt his driving style rather than just be outright fast naturally. How much that is impacting Lewis' performance is hard to say.

Leclerc gets a 7.8 from me - very fast, good head on his shoulders, but a bit of bad luck, and lack of experience have cost him in my rankings imho. Vettel is languishing down in a 5.5 on my rankings.

I'm actually starting to think that Bottas will win the 2019 WDC - yes. I'm serious.


Basically, it's two all in quali and in races. Their performance has been very even.

Indeed, a Hamilton fan disappointed that he's not beating Bottas in the manner he should be so exaggerating Bottas' performances, strange? :?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31128
dpastern wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not sure I'd agree. I don't think you can score Bottas a whole point above Hamilton. They've been just about dead level.

Since the OP's rankings seem to be largely influenced by exceeding or failing to exceed expectations, I think there's a good argument for ranking Bottas well above Hamilton in that regard.

In an absolute sense, however, I would say Hamilton has been slightly better. That's still pretty impressive for Bottas, to be only slightly worse than Hamilton.


Hamilton had pole in Australia, that's it. China and Baku, Bottas had pole. Bharain, Leclerc. Fastest lap? Hamilton has none this year. Bottas has 1 (Australia). 2 wins apiece. Bottas has looked more effective so far imho (and I'm a Hamilton fan!). Lewis wasn't particularly aggressive in the opening lap of Baku - should really have come out ahead imho.

To be fair to Lewis, it seems that this is a repeat of the 2016 season, where the car isn't to his liking and he's having to adapt his driving style rather than just be outright fast naturally. How much that is impacting Lewis' performance is hard to say.

Leclerc gets a 7.8 from me - very fast, good head on his shoulders, but a bit of bad luck, and lack of experience have cost him in my rankings imho. Vettel is languishing down in a 5.5 on my rankings.

I'm actually starting to think that Bottas will win the 2019 WDC - yes. I'm serious.


Basically, it's two all in quali and in races. Their performance has been very even.


How did you arrive at 2 all in quali? Bottas has 2 poles, Hamilton 1, Leclerc 1; out of a total of 4 races. By my antiquated maths that's 50% Bottas, 25% Hamilton...

edit: Bottas has dominated Australia and Baku. Hamilton dominated China. Hamilton was VERY lucky in Bahrain (although he did outperform Bottas that weekend I do admit). If Leclerc had not been unlucky in Bahrain, and Vettel his usual clumsy self, Hamilton would have been 3rd in Bahrain, not a winner. So, it'd be 2-1 in wins for Bottas vs Hamilton, and Bottas would be even further ahead on points in the WDC! If we take into account Bottas' bad start in China, that could have been another win for a 3-0 whitewash of Hamilton at this point of the season.

Bottas has most certainly been the far stronger, and far more impressive driver of the 2 Mercedes stars so far. It's like day and night.

You can't mascaraed as being a Hamilton fan with that kind of nonsense against him?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:45 am
Posts: 97
pokerman wrote:
You can't mascaraed as being a Hamilton fan with that kind of nonsense against him?


You see, there's a difference between a fan, and a blind fan. A fan will note the good and bad and given an honest appraisal. A blind fan however...

This is why I have been critical of Hamilton's performance so far in 2019 and why I rate Bottas higher.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JN23 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group