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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:22 pm 
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j man wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Maranello1 wrote:
trento wrote:
Leclerc will be P2 tomorrow, behind Vettel

Too early in the season to be pulling that crap.


Not so sure about that, Ferrari may have already made the first tactical error of the season by making LeClerc hold station behind Vettel in the last race.

or you could take what Ferrari themselves have said about it:

Asked if Leclerc is allowed to beat Vettel, Binotto added: "Charles is allowed to go as fast as he can. He's allowed to go for pole, he's allowed to stay ahead. We are not stopping him doing that.

"I think it is important that our two drivers are not fighting and taking any risks battling together. But no doubt, if on the first lap Charles is ahead he will stay. If at the end of the race he is ahead he will stay ahead."


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-leclerc-fastest-lap-mistake/4361312/

It'll be interesting to see how long that lasts if the two of them end up in direct competition with each other for the title. Vettel in particular hasn't been too inclined to obey team orders in the past.

Indeed multi 21. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Vettel has been called to see the stewards over an “alleged breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations and failing to observe the Race Director’s instruction, document 2 (item 16.1), driving unnecessarily slowly on an in lap at 18:13 during qualifying.”

Drivers are required to stay above a minimum time between the two Safety Car lines during in-laps to ensure they do not drive unnecessarily slowly. The minimum time for this weekend’s event is one minute and 55 seconds.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Kmag is delivering every time. Quite reliable and really under the radar lately. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:28 pm 
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So Barcelona may have been no smokescreen and Australia the outlier, anyway just relieved the gap at the front is not as big as it was looking at one point.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:28 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
And now the "will lecler c be allowed to compete with his teammate" in qualifying. It gets fricking old.

Nice not Leclerc... Stuff 'em

Strange post. :?

nothing strange about it. Even during qualifying the Sky announcers were questioning as to whether Ferrari would use team orders to put Seb on the pole.

Obviously Ferrari did Not apply team orders. Now, just read this thread since qualifying and see all of the post about whether or not Ferrari will apply team orders in the race....even suggesting that they already have last week. One would think that Ferrari is the only team to use team orders and they sure as hell catch the vast majority of the flak for it. So, yes, it gets old.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:30 pm 
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Clarky wrote:
Vettel has been called to see the stewards over an “alleged breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations and failing to observe the Race Director’s instruction, document 2 (item 16.1), driving unnecessarily slowly on an in lap at 18:13 during qualifying.”

Drivers are required to stay above a minimum time between the two Safety Car lines during in-laps to ensure they do not drive unnecessarily slowly. The minimum time for this weekend’s event is one minute and 55 seconds.


Hang him!
;)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
This year looks a bit like last year. Australia is a bit of a fluke as Ferrari clearly didn't have their act together there for some reason. Like last year, they will probably be the quickest at most venues. They were easily the fastest here and I thought Charles did a really impressive job. Basically he never put a wheel wrong and looked like he was setting his 30th pole and not his 1st. It's one theing for the team to call him off when he's behind Vettel but I do not think they will ask him to move out of the way when he's in front. If he can keep his lead at the start, this will be his race to win and it will be his chance to put an end to all of that "supporting role" talk.

Kind of a bumpy day for Vettel but I'm sure he's not too upset with the front row position. Things could have gone a lot worse considering the poor timing of the team in Q2; releasing him into all of that traffic. For the race tomorrow it will be interesting to see how the tires factor into things. Tire life differences between Mercedes and Ferrari might end up being a significant factor. I don't expect Ferrari to have the same edge in race pace that they have in qualifying.

Well done to McLaren by the way. They were very impressive here. Haas are still clearly the 4th best car IMO but McLaren are the team that is closest to them and NOT Renault at the moment.

FYI, Red Bull might need to demote Gasly mid-season if things keep going like this. I hate to be a prisoner of the moment but he has not been at all impressive and Albon and Kvyatt would both be worth a look in the car.

Aside from the bit in bold, I agree with most of what you are saying here (doesn't need a big discussion as we're not likely to change each others' minds on it!). I especially agree that tyres could spring a surprise tomorrow (a bit like they nearly did last year). One minor difference is that I think Haas might be looking like 3rd best car here, not 4th. I thin Max made the difference and I think both Haas drivers possibly under-performed.

To add to your comments on Gasly, I think Giovinazzi might also have cause to be nervous unless he starts picking things up. Kimi's making him look very slow.

Kimi's out qualified Giovinazzi by less than a tenth both times.

I think you're mistaken. In Australia Kimi's Q2 time was 1:22.349, while AG was 1:22.714. That's a lot more than a tenth. Today there may have been a tenth between them in Q1 but Kimi made it through to Q3 while AG is sitting more than a second and 7 places behind him on the grid. So yeah, I'd say Kimi is making him look slow at the moment.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:32 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
And now the "will lecler c be allowed to compete with his teammate" in qualifying. It gets fricking old.

Nice not Leclerc... Stuff 'em

Strange post. :?

nothing strange about it. Even during qualifying the Sky announcers were questioning as to whether Ferrari would use team orders to put Seb on the pole.

Obviously Ferrari did Not apply team orders. Now, just read this thread since qualifying and see all of the post about whether or not Ferrari will apply team orders in the race....even suggesting that they already have last week. One would think that Ferrari is the only team to use team orders and they sure as hell catch the vast majority of the flak for it. So, yes, it gets old.

Fair enough I was just looking to see who said that on here.

For the race all I'm reading is team orders to the benefit of Leclerc so that's sort of opposite to what Sky have said.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:42 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
This year looks a bit like last year. Australia is a bit of a fluke as Ferrari clearly didn't have their act together there for some reason. Like last year, they will probably be the quickest at most venues. They were easily the fastest here and I thought Charles did a really impressive job. Basically he never put a wheel wrong and looked like he was setting his 30th pole and not his 1st. It's one theing for the team to call him off when he's behind Vettel but I do not think they will ask him to move out of the way when he's in front. If he can keep his lead at the start, this will be his race to win and it will be his chance to put an end to all of that "supporting role" talk.

Kind of a bumpy day for Vettel but I'm sure he's not too upset with the front row position. Things could have gone a lot worse considering the poor timing of the team in Q2; releasing him into all of that traffic. For the race tomorrow it will be interesting to see how the tires factor into things. Tire life differences between Mercedes and Ferrari might end up being a significant factor. I don't expect Ferrari to have the same edge in race pace that they have in qualifying.

Well done to McLaren by the way. They were very impressive here. Haas are still clearly the 4th best car IMO but McLaren are the team that is closest to them and NOT Renault at the moment.

FYI, Red Bull might need to demote Gasly mid-season if things keep going like this. I hate to be a prisoner of the moment but he has not been at all impressive and Albon and Kvyatt would both be worth a look in the car.

Aside from the bit in bold, I agree with most of what you are saying here (doesn't need a big discussion as we're not likely to change each others' minds on it!). I especially agree that tyres could spring a surprise tomorrow (a bit like they nearly did last year). One minor difference is that I think Haas might be looking like 3rd best car here, not 4th. I thin Max made the difference and I think both Haas drivers possibly under-performed.

To add to your comments on Gasly, I think Giovinazzi might also have cause to be nervous unless he starts picking things up. Kimi's making him look very slow.

Kimi's out qualified Giovinazzi by less than a tenth both times.

I think you're mistaken. In Australia Kimi's Q2 time was 1:22.349, while AG was 1:22.714. That's a lot more than a tenth. Today there may have been a tenth between them in Q1 but Kimi made it through to Q3 while AG is sitting more than a second and 7 places behind him on the grid. So yeah, I'd say Kimi is making him look slow at the moment.

Giovinazzi did a 1-22.431 in Q1 so he has the speed in him, whilst in Bahrain Kimi only just qualified out of Q1 less than a tenth quicker than Giovinazzi, sometimes the devil is in the detail and let's not forget that Giovinazzi is a rookie, very harsh after 2 races I would say.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:42 pm 
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So Grosjean has a three place grid penalty and is only 4 points away from a race ban:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/grosjean-bahrain-grid-penalty-norris/4361791/


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:46 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
So Grosjean has a three place grid penalty and is only 4 points away from a race ban:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/grosjean-bahrain-grid-penalty-norris/4361791/


I do not understand why they kept grosjean on, I don't understand how so many completely decent drivers have left the grid and yet somehow grosjean is still driving around crashing into stuff


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Clarky wrote:
Vettel has been called to see the stewards over an “alleged breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations and failing to observe the Race Director’s instruction, document 2 (item 16.1), driving unnecessarily slowly on an in lap at 18:13 during qualifying.”

Drivers are required to stay above a minimum time between the two Safety Car lines during in-laps to ensure they do not drive unnecessarily slowly. The minimum time for this weekend’s event is one minute and 55 seconds.

No further action!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
So Grosjean has a three place grid penalty and is only 4 points away from a race ban:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/grosjean-bahrain-grid-penalty-norris/4361791/

Well he can thank his team for that penalty.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:52 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Aside from the bit in bold, I agree with most of what you are saying here (doesn't need a big discussion as we're not likely to change each others' minds on it!). I especially agree that tyres could spring a surprise tomorrow (a bit like they nearly did last year). One minor difference is that I think Haas might be looking like 3rd best car here, not 4th. I thin Max made the difference and I think both Haas drivers possibly under-performed.

To add to your comments on Gasly, I think Giovinazzi might also have cause to be nervous unless he starts picking things up. Kimi's making him look very slow.

Kimi's out qualified Giovinazzi by less than a tenth both times.

I think you're mistaken. In Australia Kimi's Q2 time was 1:22.349, while AG was 1:22.714. That's a lot more than a tenth. Today there may have been a tenth between them in Q1 but Kimi made it through to Q3 while AG is sitting more than a second and 7 places behind him on the grid. So yeah, I'd say Kimi is making him look slow at the moment.

Giovinazzi did a 1-22.431 in Q1 so he has the speed in him, whilst in Bahrain Kimi only just qualified out of Q1 less than a tenth quicker than Giovinazzi, sometimes the devil is in the detail and let's not forget that Giovinazzi is a rookie, very harsh after 2 races I would say.

not the point, though - you said there was less than a tenth both times, but that's not true. Doesn't matter how fast you go if you don't do it when it counts. I'm just saying that Kimi is making him look slow so far as Kimi is often criticised for not being that quick anymore himself.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:00 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Aside from the bit in bold, I agree with most of what you are saying here (doesn't need a big discussion as we're not likely to change each others' minds on it!). I especially agree that tyres could spring a surprise tomorrow (a bit like they nearly did last year). One minor difference is that I think Haas might be looking like 3rd best car here, not 4th. I thin Max made the difference and I think both Haas drivers possibly under-performed.

To add to your comments on Gasly, I think Giovinazzi might also have cause to be nervous unless he starts picking things up. Kimi's making him look very slow.

Kimi's out qualified Giovinazzi by less than a tenth both times.

I think you're mistaken. In Australia Kimi's Q2 time was 1:22.349, while AG was 1:22.714. That's a lot more than a tenth. Today there may have been a tenth between them in Q1 but Kimi made it through to Q3 while AG is sitting more than a second and 7 places behind him on the grid. So yeah, I'd say Kimi is making him look slow at the moment.

Giovinazzi did a 1-22.431 in Q1 so he has the speed in him, whilst in Bahrain Kimi only just qualified out of Q1 less than a tenth quicker than Giovinazzi, sometimes the devil is in the detail and let's not forget that Giovinazzi is a rookie, very harsh after 2 races I would say.

not the point, though - you said there was less than a tenth both times, but that's not true. Doesn't matter how fast you go if you don't do it when it counts. I'm just saying that Kimi is making him look slow so far as Kimi is often criticised for not being that quick anymore himself.

Leclerc was getting out qualified by the talent that is Ericsson this time last season, Giovinazzi is a F1 rookie that's not raced competitively for the last 2 years, the knives are out for some reason?

Give the guy a chance and like I said the devil is sometimes in the detail and I think your reading of the situation is somewhat exagerated?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:02 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Aside from the bit in bold, I agree with most of what you are saying here (doesn't need a big discussion as we're not likely to change each others' minds on it!). I especially agree that tyres could spring a surprise tomorrow (a bit like they nearly did last year). One minor difference is that I think Haas might be looking like 3rd best car here, not 4th. I thin Max made the difference and I think both Haas drivers possibly under-performed.

To add to your comments on Gasly, I think Giovinazzi might also have cause to be nervous unless he starts picking things up. Kimi's making him look very slow.

Kimi's out qualified Giovinazzi by less than a tenth both times.

I think you're mistaken. In Australia Kimi's Q2 time was 1:22.349, while AG was 1:22.714. That's a lot more than a tenth. Today there may have been a tenth between them in Q1 but Kimi made it through to Q3 while AG is sitting more than a second and 7 places behind him on the grid. So yeah, I'd say Kimi is making him look slow at the moment.

Giovinazzi did a 1-22.431 in Q1 so he has the speed in him, whilst in Bahrain Kimi only just qualified out of Q1 less than a tenth quicker than Giovinazzi, sometimes the devil is in the detail and let's not forget that Giovinazzi is a rookie, very harsh after 2 races I would say.

not the point, though - you said there was less than a tenth both times, but that's not true. Doesn't matter how fast you go if you don't do it when it counts. I'm just saying that Kimi is making him look slow so far as Kimi is often criticised for not being that quick anymore himself.


Does that mean Kimi himself was slow in Q1 today?

In Australia, Kimi's best time was 0.1 quicker than Gio's best time. Does that make Kimi quick?


Last edited by Johnson on Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Kimi's out qualified Giovinazzi by less than a tenth both times.

I think you're mistaken. In Australia Kimi's Q2 time was 1:22.349, while AG was 1:22.714. That's a lot more than a tenth. Today there may have been a tenth between them in Q1 but Kimi made it through to Q3 while AG is sitting more than a second and 7 places behind him on the grid. So yeah, I'd say Kimi is making him look slow at the moment.

Giovinazzi did a 1-22.431 in Q1 so he has the speed in him, whilst in Bahrain Kimi only just qualified out of Q1 less than a tenth quicker than Giovinazzi, sometimes the devil is in the detail and let's not forget that Giovinazzi is a rookie, very harsh after 2 races I would say.

not the point, though - you said there was less than a tenth both times, but that's not true. Doesn't matter how fast you go if you don't do it when it counts. I'm just saying that Kimi is making him look slow so far as Kimi is often criticised for not being that quick anymore himself.

Leclerc was getting out qualified by the talent that is Ericsson this time last season, Giovinazzi is a F1 rookie that's not raced competitively for the last 2 years, the knives are out for some reason?

Give the guy a chance and like I said the devil is sometimes in the detail and I think your reading of the situation is somewhat exagerated?

For clarity, I'm not calling for his removal, just saying that so far he's not had the best start and he's being outshone by his team mate


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:24 pm 
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So it seems Vettel has been a bit naughty

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/norris-vettel-screwed-over-grosjean/4361853/


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:11 pm 
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Zoue wrote:

I'm more concerned about why the drivers have to drive so slowly on outlaps in the first place. The Pirelli tyres really are hopeless, they are far too thermally sensitive.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:20 pm 
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j man wrote:
Zoue wrote:

I'm more concerned about why the drivers have to drive so slowly on outlaps in the first place. The Pirelli tyres really are hopeless, they are far too thermally sensitive.

well, I agree, but that's not new tbh. Pirelli have been producing thermally sensitive tyres since 2012


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:23 pm 
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Head to head comparison of Vettel and leclerc


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:14 pm 
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Clarky wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Vettel has been called to see the stewards over an “alleged breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations and failing to observe the Race Director’s instruction, document 2 (item 16.1), driving unnecessarily slowly on an in lap at 18:13 during qualifying.”

Drivers are required to stay above a minimum time between the two Safety Car lines during in-laps to ensure they do not drive unnecessarily slowly. The minimum time for this weekend’s event is one minute and 55 seconds.

No further action!


He should be called in again re his breach of the "wearing a bad moustache" rule ! :D


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:17 pm 
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Bacus wrote:
Leclerc will be sacked, he's too fast.

What a sad little mind.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:23 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
And now the "will lecler c be allowed to compete with his teammate" in qualifying. It gets fricking old.

Nice not Leclerc... Stuff 'em

Strange post. :?

nothing strange about it. Even during qualifying the Sky announcers were questioning as to whether Ferrari would use team orders to put Seb on the pole.

Obviously Ferrari did Not apply team orders. Now, just read this thread since qualifying and see all of the post about whether or not Ferrari will apply team orders in the race....even suggesting that they already have last week. One would think that Ferrari is the only team to use team orders and they sure as hell catch the vast majority of the flak for it. So, yes, it gets old.


How do you use team orders in qualifying?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:41 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
And now the "will lecler c be allowed to compete with his teammate" in qualifying. It gets fricking old.

Nice not Leclerc... Stuff 'em

Strange post. :?

nothing strange about it. Even during qualifying the Sky announcers were questioning as to whether Ferrari would use team orders to put Seb on the pole.

Obviously Ferrari did Not apply team orders. Now, just read this thread since qualifying and see all of the post about whether or not Ferrari will apply team orders in the race....even suggesting that they already have last week. One would think that Ferrari is the only team to use team orders and they sure as hell catch the vast majority of the flak for it. So, yes, it gets old.


How do you use team orders in qualifying?

I distinctly heard Martin Brundle say that there was no way to use team orders in qualifying unless you turned down the engine for one of the drivers; which no team would do. So in other words; Blake is completely misrepresenting the broadcast...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:45 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
And now the "will lecler c be allowed to compete with his teammate" in qualifying. It gets fricking old.

Nice not Leclerc... Stuff 'em

Strange post. :?

nothing strange about it. Even during qualifying the Sky announcers were questioning as to whether Ferrari would use team orders to put Seb on the pole.

Obviously Ferrari did Not apply team orders. Now, just read this thread since qualifying and see all of the post about whether or not Ferrari will apply team orders in the race....even suggesting that they already have last week. One would think that Ferrari is the only team to use team orders and they sure as hell catch the vast majority of the flak for it. So, yes, it gets old.


How do you use team orders in qualifying?

I distinctly heard Martin Brundle say that there was no way to use team orders in qualifying unless you turned down the engine for one of the drivers; which no team would do. So in other words; Blake is completely misrepresenting the broadcast...

I'm inclined to agree with this. I'm no fan of the Sky team, but I did also hear Brundle saying team orders in qualifying are impossible.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:56 pm 
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Very interested in tomorrow. It seems that although Ferrari grabbed all headlines in practice and now qualifying with very very strong 1 lap pace, I've read a few articles that mercs race pace is actually the strongest

This might explained by Hamilton seemed relatively optimistic in his post qualification interview


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:59 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Very interested in tomorrow. It seems that although Ferrari grabbed all headlines in practice and now qualifying with very very strong 1 lap pace, I've read a few articles that mercs race pace is actually the strongest

This might explained by Hamilton seemed relatively optimistic in his post qualification interview


He also said something about Mercedes having improved since Australia which made him happy. Could be quite interesting tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:13 pm 
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I have to say, the final corner of Bahrain is one of the least aesthetically pleasing corners on the calendar. No matter what line a driver takes through there, it never quite looks right.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:16 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I have to say, the final corner of Bahrain is one of the least aesthetically pleasing corners on the calendar. No matter what line a driver takes through there, it never quite looks right.

Surely the sign of a good corner that there's no straightforward racing line through it. I get the same feeling from the opening section in Shanghai.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:18 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I have to say, the final corner of Bahrain is one of the least aesthetically pleasing corners on the calendar. No matter what line a driver takes through there, it never quite looks right.


It's a really strange corner, looks like it is quite an open corner but where they actually exit the corner its really quite narrow, it then widens which is what gives the illusion


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:25 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
j man wrote:
Zoue wrote:

I'm more concerned about why the drivers have to drive so slowly on outlaps in the first place. The Pirelli tyres really are hopeless, they are far too thermally sensitive.

well, I agree, but that's not new tbh. Pirelli have been producing thermally sensitive tyres since 2012

True, but I feel it's been getting progressively worse, particularly with respect to the level of preparation the driver has to do before a qualifying lap to get the tyres in the right operating window. It was mentioned in the UK Sky coverage in FP3 (I think) that the teams have been saying that the cars are getting more and more difficult to set up because their optimum operating window is getting ever narrower. It was suggested that this is the main cause of the large performance swings we have been seeing from race to race over the past couple of years (between Mercedes and Ferrari especially). I can't recall the pecking order fluctuating so much between races aside from when we had two tyre suppliers.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:32 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Very interested in tomorrow. It seems that although Ferrari grabbed all headlines in practice and now qualifying with very very strong 1 lap pace, I've read a few articles that mercs race pace is actually the strongest

This might explained by Hamilton seemed relatively optimistic in his post qualification interview
yes the article below states Mercedes had the strongest race pace by 0.5s a lap, although it did say that Ferrari weren't running a normal program:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.friday-pace-analysis-bahrain-2019.4qHsQh12pGLKLhTnS35XpI.html


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:33 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Blake wrote:
nothing strange about it. Even during qualifying the Sky announcers were questioning as to whether Ferrari would use team orders to put Seb on the pole.

Obviously Ferrari did Not apply team orders. Now, just read this thread since qualifying and see all of the post about whether or not Ferrari will apply team orders in the race....even suggesting that they already have last week. One would think that Ferrari is the only team to use team orders and they sure as hell catch the vast majority of the flak for it. So, yes, it gets old.


How do you use team orders in qualifying?

I distinctly heard Martin Brundle say that there was no way to use team orders in qualifying unless you turned down the engine for one of the drivers; which no team would do. So in other words; Blake is completely misrepresenting the broadcast...

No... Sandman, I am not. Brundle saying that it can't be done doesn't change anything, however. The idea of using Team Orders in qualifying should have never even been a topic...period. Still they brought it up in regard to Ferrari. I don't recall heading it brought up in Australia, do you?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:43 pm 
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j man wrote:
Zoue wrote:
j man wrote:
Zoue wrote:

I'm more concerned about why the drivers have to drive so slowly on outlaps in the first place. The Pirelli tyres really are hopeless, they are far too thermally sensitive.

well, I agree, but that's not new tbh. Pirelli have been producing thermally sensitive tyres since 2012

True, but I feel it's been getting progressively worse, particularly with respect to the level of preparation the driver has to do before a qualifying lap to get the tyres in the right operating window. It was mentioned in the UK Sky coverage in FP3 (I think) that the teams have been saying that the cars are getting more and more difficult to set up because their optimum operating window is getting ever narrower. It was suggested that this is the main cause of the large performance swings we have been seeing from race to race over the past couple of years (between Mercedes and Ferrari especially). I can't recall the pecking order fluctuating so much between races aside from when we had two tyre suppliers.

100% agree. I started a thread on Stefan Johansson's ideas for change in F1 and he summed up more or less exactly what you've just said:

It’s almost comical that every weekend teams at the highest level get caught out with the tires not working at their optimal level. Teams spend $100’s of millions on aero development and engine development, yet on the day, they lose races because the tire pressures were off or the temps didn’t come up their optimal working range, or the front’s didn’t heat up as quick as the rears or whatever. Literally, most races are won or lost depending on how the teams make their tires work.

https://www.stefanjohansson.com/blog/make-racing-awesome-again

It's all about the tyres now


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:48 pm 
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Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Blake wrote:
nothing strange about it. Even during qualifying the Sky announcers were questioning as to whether Ferrari would use team orders to put Seb on the pole.

Obviously Ferrari did Not apply team orders. Now, just read this thread since qualifying and see all of the post about whether or not Ferrari will apply team orders in the race....even suggesting that they already have last week. One would think that Ferrari is the only team to use team orders and they sure as hell catch the vast majority of the flak for it. So, yes, it gets old.


How do you use team orders in qualifying?

I distinctly heard Martin Brundle say that there was no way to use team orders in qualifying unless you turned down the engine for one of the drivers; which no team would do. So in other words; Blake is completely misrepresenting the broadcast...

No... Sandman, I am not. Brundle saying that it can't be done doesn't change anything, however. The idea of using Team Orders in qualifying should have never even been a topic...period. Still they brought it up in regard to Ferrari. I don't recall heading it brought up in Australia, do you?


Well it was mentioned by several posters in the Australian Grand Prix thread http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15447&start=40 Page 2.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:25 pm 
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Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Blake wrote:
nothing strange about it. Even during qualifying the Sky announcers were questioning as to whether Ferrari would use team orders to put Seb on the pole.

Obviously Ferrari did Not apply team orders. Now, just read this thread since qualifying and see all of the post about whether or not Ferrari will apply team orders in the race....even suggesting that they already have last week. One would think that Ferrari is the only team to use team orders and they sure as hell catch the vast majority of the flak for it. So, yes, it gets old.


How do you use team orders in qualifying?

I distinctly heard Martin Brundle say that there was no way to use team orders in qualifying unless you turned down the engine for one of the drivers; which no team would do. So in other words; Blake is completely misrepresenting the broadcast...

No... Sandman, I am not. Brundle saying that it can't be done doesn't change anything, however. The idea of using Team Orders in qualifying should have never even been a topic...period. Still they brought it up in regard to Ferrari. I don't recall heading it brought up in Australia, do you?

So simply discussing it; even if it's to emphatically state that it is NOT happening; is an affront to you? You should start to look at some of your posts in the forum Blake. The constant knee-jerk reaction to anything that includes Ferrari (other than praise) is getting a bit unreasonable.

If you're wondering why there are people who discuss the topic of team orders at Ferrari; it probably has something to do with the fact that Ferrari announced that Leclerc would be playing a supporting role to Vettel to start the year. They then backed that up by calling him off when he was in position to attack Vettel for position in Australia. So Ferrari themselves have made this a topic of conversation.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:57 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Blake wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Blake wrote:
nothing strange about it. Even during qualifying the Sky announcers were questioning as to whether Ferrari would use team orders to put Seb on the pole.

Obviously Ferrari did Not apply team orders. Now, just read this thread since qualifying and see all of the post about whether or not Ferrari will apply team orders in the race....even suggesting that they already have last week. One would think that Ferrari is the only team to use team orders and they sure as hell catch the vast majority of the flak for it. So, yes, it gets old.


How do you use team orders in qualifying?

I distinctly heard Martin Brundle say that there was no way to use team orders in qualifying unless you turned down the engine for one of the drivers; which no team would do. So in other words; Blake is completely misrepresenting the broadcast...

No... Sandman, I am not. Brundle saying that it can't be done doesn't change anything, however. The idea of using Team Orders in qualifying should have never even been a topic...period. Still they brought it up in regard to Ferrari. I don't recall heading it brought up in Australia, do you?

So simply discussing it; even if it's to emphatically state that it is NOT happening; is an affront to you? You should start to look at some of your posts in the forum Blake. The constant knee-jerk reaction to anything that includes Ferrari (other than praise) is getting a bit unreasonable.

If you're wondering why there are people who discuss the topic of team orders at Ferrari; it probably has something to do with the fact that Ferrari announced that Leclerc would be playing a supporting role to Vettel to start the year. They then backed that up by calling him off when he was in position to attack Vettel for position in Australia. So Ferrari themselves have made this a topic of conversation.



I suspect you have chosen to miss the point. The simple matter is that bringing up team orders in qualifying was unnecessary,not relevent, yet still they brought it up...even if to say it couldn't happen. That, was the point I was trying to make. On that note, let's leave it...I sure as heck don't want another year of this.

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Last edited by Blake on Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:06 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think you're mistaken. In Australia Kimi's Q2 time was 1:22.349, while AG was 1:22.714. That's a lot more than a tenth. Today there may have been a tenth between them in Q1 but Kimi made it through to Q3 while AG is sitting more than a second and 7 places behind him on the grid. So yeah, I'd say Kimi is making him look slow at the moment.

Giovinazzi did a 1-22.431 in Q1 so he has the speed in him, whilst in Bahrain Kimi only just qualified out of Q1 less than a tenth quicker than Giovinazzi, sometimes the devil is in the detail and let's not forget that Giovinazzi is a rookie, very harsh after 2 races I would say.

not the point, though - you said there was less than a tenth both times, but that's not true. Doesn't matter how fast you go if you don't do it when it counts. I'm just saying that Kimi is making him look slow so far as Kimi is often criticised for not being that quick anymore himself.

Leclerc was getting out qualified by the talent that is Ericsson this time last season, Giovinazzi is a F1 rookie that's not raced competitively for the last 2 years, the knives are out for some reason?

Give the guy a chance and like I said the devil is sometimes in the detail and I think your reading of the situation is somewhat exagerated?

For clarity, I'm not calling for his removal, just saying that so far he's not had the best start and he's being outshone by his team mate

Which is too be expected and normal given the circumstances.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:36 am 
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Giovinazzi has never looked special. Sure give him this season but Ferrari should have another youngster ready for next year to test against the tried and tested Kimi benchmark in Alfa Romeo. His slidey driving in Australia was dire so it's just not lack of speed.

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