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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:11 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

The cars have.

They are noticeably bigger and faster than ever before.


Yeah. Faster cars obviously have the effect of shortening the circuit & the natural result of that a reduction in overtaking opportunities.

Golf courses must evolve to remain a challenge for players constantly using the latest in club & ball technology, so ideally I suppose circuits should be doing the same.

I think the better solution is to start shifting the regulations back to smaller cars that are less dependent on aero. It's not feasible to make tracks bigger to suit the cars, especially considering tracks like Monaco.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:45 pm 
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So critiquing the Indycar race, it was a good race until the late safety car lottery that shuffled up the field and produced a result to a race basically different to the race I was watching for the first 90 minutes, like Will Power said the SC pit lane rules is bs.

Also strange that there were no track limit rules, an attempt perhaps to have the Indycars as close to performance as possible to the F1 cars on a track were F1 cars race?

Anyway it was quite ridiculous and even more ridiculous to see two cars coming together with each other whilst they were both off the track, one car it seems trying to avoid a strip of grass as he rejoined the track and the other car didn't leave him enough room to do so, so one car crashes bringing out the late safety car, so one ridiculous rule begets another one and the two long time leaders finish nowhere.

At least the winner Herta was near the front throughout the race, at 18 the youngest winner in Indycar history, maybe a future F1 driver?

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Also strange that there were no track limit rules, an attempt perhaps to have the Indycars as close to performance as possible to the F1 cars on a track were F1 cars race?

I think it's just normal IndyCar thinking. Their default is that track limits are determined purely by what penalizes you naturally - most IndyCar tracks have grass right off the side of the track, or brick walls where there isn't grass. It's the clash between an F1 track that doesn't penalize cars for running off and the IndyCar idea that tracks should be self-penalizing.

Since they were 14 seconds off the pace, I doubt IndyCar cared about recovering 5 tenths or whatever that corner interpretation was worth.

pokerman wrote:
At least the winner Herta was near the front throughout the race, at 18 the youngest winner in Indycar history, maybe a future F1 driver?

I've liked what I've seen from him so far. I had the impression from last year that O'Warde was better, but Herta still has room to grow and is looking very comfortable near the front in a non-favored car. Hopefully once O'Warde gets up to speed they'll both be fighting at the front.

Unlike Ferucci, who I wish the commentators would stop focusing on. He's a talentless racist who shouldn't be on the grid. :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:18 am 
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I wasn't fond of the end as Alex Rossi is the local homegrown hero. The race itself was exciting. Not just the overtaking, which there was plenty, but the strategy on tires, fuel and track position kept you paying attention. F1 has faster cars, spends a lot more money and elite drivers, but Indycar has more exciting racing.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:30 am 
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ptr250 wrote:
I wasn't fond of the end as Alex Rossi is the local homegrown hero. The race itself was exciting. Not just the overtaking, which there was plenty, but the strategy on tires, fuel and track position kept you paying attention. F1 has faster cars, spends a lot more money and elite drivers, but Indycar has more exciting racing.

You see that's the problem the end should be a product of the race and not some late race lottery, you admit you wasn't fond of the end because it ruined the race of a driver you support.

Is the racing really that exciting when there is a need to close the pit lane under the SC thus ruining the races of drivers who have yet to pit?

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:15 am 
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It's a dumb rule, but the teams are aware of the rule. The announcers were warning that Rossi and Powers were taking a chance staying out. Nevertheless, the racing was exciting. I thought the announcing team was far superior than the toads at Sky Sports.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:52 am 
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Altair wrote:
Is F1 boring or is Australia boring?

It sucks the the season usually needs to start with a whimper.

I think F1 is less boring than the average happening in Australia, but you could have chosen other things in Australia to watch.
This video below seems like a cross section of what is happening in much of Australia.
Overall comparison, I think F1 seems interesting, so I guess it must be option 2.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:25 pm 
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ptr250 wrote:
It's a dumb rule, but the teams are aware of the rule. The announcers were warning that Rossi and Powers were taking a chance staying out. Nevertheless, the racing was exciting. I thought the announcing team was far superior than the toads at Sky Sports.

So as soon as a competitor(s) pits you have to pit the next lap otherwise you risk your race being ruined, what kind of racing is that?

Unfortunately in this case I wasn't able to watch the race closely throughout because of meal time, in respect to you criticising the Sky Sports team I was expecting to come on here to criticise all the advert breaks but I couldn't because every time the host broadcaster went to adverts we were still watching the cars going around albeit with no commentary which I can't say I missed, not for a few minutes anyway.

As for the exciting racing I don't recall any passing between the leaders with the top 3 pulling away at about 7 tenths a lap, even Herta in third place eventually started to get dropped, the exciting racing seemed to be more in the midfield which you said in regards to F1 doesn't really count.

Viewing the racing I think the cars would have similar problems trying to pass around Melbourne.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:06 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
It's a dumb rule, but the teams are aware of the rule. The announcers were warning that Rossi and Powers were taking a chance staying out. Nevertheless, the racing was exciting. I thought the announcing team was far superior than the toads at Sky Sports.

So as soon as a competitor(s) pits you have to pit the next lap otherwise you risk your race being ruined, what kind of racing is that?

Unfortunately in this case I wasn't able to watch the race closely throughout because of meal time, in respect to you criticising the Sky Sports team I was expecting to come on here to criticise all the advert breaks but I couldn't because every time the host broadcaster went to adverts we were still watching the cars going around albeit with no commentary which I can't say I missed, not for a few minutes anyway.

As for the exciting racing I don't recall any passing between the leaders with the top 3 pulling away at about 7 tenths a lap, even Herta in third place eventually started to get dropped, the exciting racing seemed to be more in the midfield which you said in regards to F1 doesn't really count.

Viewing the racing I think the cars would have similar problems trying to pass around Melbourne.

As you said, you were not watching very closely. Herta made a brilliant pass on Rossi. Alex returned the favor a few laps later. If not for the yellow and Powers DNF the final 10 laps may have been epic. Oh and don't tell me F1 doesn't have any dumb rules.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:27 pm 
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ptr250 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
It's a dumb rule, but the teams are aware of the rule. The announcers were warning that Rossi and Powers were taking a chance staying out. Nevertheless, the racing was exciting. I thought the announcing team was far superior than the toads at Sky Sports.

So as soon as a competitor(s) pits you have to pit the next lap otherwise you risk your race being ruined, what kind of racing is that?

Unfortunately in this case I wasn't able to watch the race closely throughout because of meal time, in respect to you criticising the Sky Sports team I was expecting to come on here to criticise all the advert breaks but I couldn't because every time the host broadcaster went to adverts we were still watching the cars going around albeit with no commentary which I can't say I missed, not for a few minutes anyway.

As for the exciting racing I don't recall any passing between the leaders with the top 3 pulling away at about 7 tenths a lap, even Herta in third place eventually started to get dropped, the exciting racing seemed to be more in the midfield which you said in regards to F1 doesn't really count.

Viewing the racing I think the cars would have similar problems trying to pass around Melbourne.

As you said, you were not watching very closely. Herta made a brilliant pass on Rossi. Alex returned the favor a few laps later. If not for the yellow and Powers DNF the final 10 laps may have been epic. Oh and don't tell me F1 doesn't have any dumb rules.

Yeah I could still hear the commentary whilst making dinner but couldn't really concentrate, I know there was some cold tyre passes through pit stop stages, would Herta passing Rossi be one of them?

I don't see there is any rule in F1 as bad as closing the pits when a safety car is called.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:29 pm 
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I think there are lot of people who want F1 not to be F1.
Maybe they're new to the sport or their rose tinted glasses are practically opaque, but if the reaction to every race like the last one is "F1 is boring" then F1 is boring and always has been.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:59 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
It's a dumb rule, but the teams are aware of the rule. The announcers were warning that Rossi and Powers were taking a chance staying out. Nevertheless, the racing was exciting. I thought the announcing team was far superior than the toads at Sky Sports.

So as soon as a competitor(s) pits you have to pit the next lap otherwise you risk your race being ruined, what kind of racing is that?

Unfortunately in this case I wasn't able to watch the race closely throughout because of meal time, in respect to you criticising the Sky Sports team I was expecting to come on here to criticise all the advert breaks but I couldn't because every time the host broadcaster went to adverts we were still watching the cars going around albeit with no commentary which I can't say I missed, not for a few minutes anyway.

As for the exciting racing I don't recall any passing between the leaders with the top 3 pulling away at about 7 tenths a lap, even Herta in third place eventually started to get dropped, the exciting racing seemed to be more in the midfield which you said in regards to F1 doesn't really count.

Viewing the racing I think the cars would have similar problems trying to pass around Melbourne.

As you said, you were not watching very closely. Herta made a brilliant pass on Rossi. Alex returned the favor a few laps later. If not for the yellow and Powers DNF the final 10 laps may have been epic. Oh and don't tell me F1 doesn't have any dumb rules.

Yeah I could still hear the commentary whilst making dinner but couldn't really concentrate, I know there was some cold tyre passes through pit stop stages, would Herta passing Rossi be one of them?

I don't see there is any rule in F1 as bad as closing the pits when a safety car is called.

No, it was fairly early in the race. 1-3 were within tenths of each other. Alex made a little mistake and Herta scooted past him. A few laps later Rossi made a brilliant move and took his spot back. After that Power and Rossi pulled away. I wasn't happy with the results, but it was a great race.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
It's a dumb rule, but the teams are aware of the rule. The announcers were warning that Rossi and Powers were taking a chance staying out. Nevertheless, the racing was exciting. I thought the announcing team was far superior than the toads at Sky Sports.

So as soon as a competitor(s) pits you have to pit the next lap otherwise you risk your race being ruined, what kind of racing is that?

Unfortunately in this case I wasn't able to watch the race closely throughout because of meal time, in respect to you criticising the Sky Sports team I was expecting to come on here to criticise all the advert breaks but I couldn't because every time the host broadcaster went to adverts we were still watching the cars going around albeit with no commentary which I can't say I missed, not for a few minutes anyway.

As for the exciting racing I don't recall any passing between the leaders with the top 3 pulling away at about 7 tenths a lap, even Herta in third place eventually started to get dropped, the exciting racing seemed to be more in the midfield which you said in regards to F1 doesn't really count.

Viewing the racing I think the cars would have similar problems trying to pass around Melbourne.

As you said, you were not watching very closely. Herta made a brilliant pass on Rossi. Alex returned the favor a few laps later. If not for the yellow and Powers DNF the final 10 laps may have been epic. Oh and don't tell me F1 doesn't have any dumb rules.

Yeah I could still hear the commentary whilst making dinner but couldn't really concentrate, I know there was some cold tyre passes through pit stop stages, would Herta passing Rossi be one of them?

I don't see there is any rule in F1 as bad as closing the pits when a safety car is called.

Yes F1 would never come up with such a rule, right? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:46 pm 
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ptr250 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
It's a dumb rule, but the teams are aware of the rule. The announcers were warning that Rossi and Powers were taking a chance staying out. Nevertheless, the racing was exciting. I thought the announcing team was far superior than the toads at Sky Sports.

So as soon as a competitor(s) pits you have to pit the next lap otherwise you risk your race being ruined, what kind of racing is that?

Unfortunately in this case I wasn't able to watch the race closely throughout because of meal time, in respect to you criticising the Sky Sports team I was expecting to come on here to criticise all the advert breaks but I couldn't because every time the host broadcaster went to adverts we were still watching the cars going around albeit with no commentary which I can't say I missed, not for a few minutes anyway.

As for the exciting racing I don't recall any passing between the leaders with the top 3 pulling away at about 7 tenths a lap, even Herta in third place eventually started to get dropped, the exciting racing seemed to be more in the midfield which you said in regards to F1 doesn't really count.

Viewing the racing I think the cars would have similar problems trying to pass around Melbourne.

As you said, you were not watching very closely. Herta made a brilliant pass on Rossi. Alex returned the favor a few laps later. If not for the yellow and Powers DNF the final 10 laps may have been epic. Oh and don't tell me F1 doesn't have any dumb rules.

Yeah I could still hear the commentary whilst making dinner but couldn't really concentrate, I know there was some cold tyre passes through pit stop stages, would Herta passing Rossi be one of them?

I don't see there is any rule in F1 as bad as closing the pits when a safety car is called.

No, it was fairly early in the race. 1-3 were within tenths of each other. Alex made a little mistake and Herta scooted past him. A few laps later Rossi made a brilliant move and took his spot back. After that Power and Rossi pulled away. I wasn't happy with the results, but it was a great race.

Fair enough I must have been distracted when that happened.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
It's a dumb rule, but the teams are aware of the rule. The announcers were warning that Rossi and Powers were taking a chance staying out. Nevertheless, the racing was exciting. I thought the announcing team was far superior than the toads at Sky Sports.

So as soon as a competitor(s) pits you have to pit the next lap otherwise you risk your race being ruined, what kind of racing is that?

Unfortunately in this case I wasn't able to watch the race closely throughout because of meal time, in respect to you criticising the Sky Sports team I was expecting to come on here to criticise all the advert breaks but I couldn't because every time the host broadcaster went to adverts we were still watching the cars going around albeit with no commentary which I can't say I missed, not for a few minutes anyway.

As for the exciting racing I don't recall any passing between the leaders with the top 3 pulling away at about 7 tenths a lap, even Herta in third place eventually started to get dropped, the exciting racing seemed to be more in the midfield which you said in regards to F1 doesn't really count.

Viewing the racing I think the cars would have similar problems trying to pass around Melbourne.

As you said, you were not watching very closely. Herta made a brilliant pass on Rossi. Alex returned the favor a few laps later. If not for the yellow and Powers DNF the final 10 laps may have been epic. Oh and don't tell me F1 doesn't have any dumb rules.

Yeah I could still hear the commentary whilst making dinner but couldn't really concentrate, I know there was some cold tyre passes through pit stop stages, would Herta passing Rossi be one of them?

I don't see there is any rule in F1 as bad as closing the pits when a safety car is called.

Yes F1 would never come up with such a rule, right? :lol:

Plenty in the past but why would that concern me today, you learn from mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:28 pm 
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There's a few things F1 could learn from Indycar. More pit stops equal more drama, especially when you add fuel usage to the calculations. More parity between the teams equals better racing. I'm not talking about a spec series, but a financial cap would help even the field. Look at it this way. If F1 had a race without Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull, who would be favored to win?


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:47 pm 
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ptr250 wrote:
There's a few things F1 could learn from Indycar. More pit stops equal more drama, especially when you add fuel usage to the calculations. More parity between the teams equals better racing. I'm not talking about a spec series, but a financial cap would help even the field. Look at it this way. If F1 had a race without Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull, who would be favored to win?

If you need pit stops for drama because the on track racing itself is boring then basically I can understand why you don't find anything wrong with Power and Rossi not getting their just reward, the entertainment comes first.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:28 pm 
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I have an opinion, you have an opinion. I am biased, and you may be biased. I may have more experience as a fan, you may have less. But in the final tally, it is about personal opinion.

So how about another metric?

How about how this forum reacts after a race? If there are just four or five new threads opened up after a race, versus a hundred that go on for pages, that may be relevant whether a race was "exciting" or not.

IMO Formula One is boring because there should be many threads, each discussing passes, pit strategy, who did what to whom, what-ifs and why-nots.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:24 pm 
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That actually got me thinking, we should be able to rank each race like e.g. imdb does with series and movies, so you can look back at the scores for individual races.
"The 2013 Malaysian race got a 9.3? I got to rewatch it." Or "The season average for 2009 is 8.9? Must´ve been a helluva season".

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
That actually got me thinking, we should be able to rank each race like e.g. imdb does with series and movies, so you can look back at the scores for individual races.
"The 2013 Malaysian race got a 9.3? I got to rewatch it." Or "The season average for 2009 is 8.9? Must´ve been a helluva season".


Racefans.net do a rate the race poll after each race.

Top 100: https://www.racefans.net/rate-the-race/ ... c-top-100/

Bottom 10: https://www.racefans.net/rate-the-race/ ... bottom-10/

Circuit ratings: https://www.racefans.net/rate-the-race/circuit-ratings/

If you search around their website you can probably look for races not included in the top 100 or bottom 10.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:02 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
That actually got me thinking, we should be able to rank each race like e.g. imdb does with series and movies, so you can look back at the scores for individual races.
"The 2013 Malaysian race got a 9.3? I got to rewatch it." Or "The season average for 2009 is 8.9? Must´ve been a helluva season".


Racefans.net do a rate the race poll after each race.

Top 100: https://www.racefans.net/rate-the-race/ ... c-top-100/

Bottom 10: https://www.racefans.net/rate-the-race/ ... bottom-10/

Circuit ratings: https://www.racefans.net/rate-the-race/circuit-ratings/

If you search around their website you can probably look for races not included in the top 100 or bottom 10.

Cheers, will check it out!

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:00 pm 
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ptr250 wrote:
There's a few things F1 could learn from Indycar. More pit stops equal more drama, especially when you add fuel usage to the calculations. More parity between the teams equals better racing. I'm not talking about a spec series, but a financial cap would help even the field. Look at it this way. If F1 had a race without Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull, who would be favored to win?


F1 has a different raison d'etre. It is meant to be the technical pinnacle, attracting the best engineering brains and innovators as well as the best drivers. Surely Indy is closer because most of the pack have the same generic chassis and engines. I havent seen Indy recently, so correct me if I'm slightly out of date. But because it lacks design and budgetary freedom its cost base is still a tiny fraction of F1's; as, consequently, is its world profile. F1 has Ferrari because they chase excellence above all else. Indy does not. I don't think you can compare them. Surely Indy is really more like GP2..


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:48 pm 
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tim3003 wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
There's a few things F1 could learn from Indycar. More pit stops equal more drama, especially when you add fuel usage to the calculations. More parity between the teams equals better racing. I'm not talking about a spec series, but a financial cap would help even the field. Look at it this way. If F1 had a race without Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull, who would be favored to win?


F1 has a different raison d'etre. It is meant to be the technical pinnacle, attracting the best engineering brains and innovators as well as the best drivers. Surely Indy is closer because most of the pack have the same generic chassis and engines. I havent seen Indy recently, so correct me if I'm slightly out of date. But because it lacks design and budgetary freedom its cost base is still a tiny fraction of F1's; as, consequently, is its world profile. F1 has Ferrari because they chase excellence above all else. Indy does not. I don't think you can compare them. Surely Indy is really more like GP2..

Yes that's been mentioned before, the cars actually have a similar performance level.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:58 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
tim3003 wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
There's a few things F1 could learn from Indycar. More pit stops equal more drama, especially when you add fuel usage to the calculations. More parity between the teams equals better racing. I'm not talking about a spec series, but a financial cap would help even the field. Look at it this way. If F1 had a race without Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull, who would be favored to win?


. Surely Indy is really more like GP2..

Yes that's been mentioned before, the cars actually have a similar performance level.


Hmmm..... i don't think an F1 car would stand much of a chance around the Indy 500 as Indy cars are going lap after lap at 229+mph, so any comparison is a bit pointless really, they're apples and oranges.

(The lap record was set over decade ago at 237.49 mph)


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:37 pm 
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PT03 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tim3003 wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
There's a few things F1 could learn from Indycar. More pit stops equal more drama, especially when you add fuel usage to the calculations. More parity between the teams equals better racing. I'm not talking about a spec series, but a financial cap would help even the field. Look at it this way. If F1 had a race without Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull, who would be favored to win?


. Surely Indy is really more like GP2..

Yes that's been mentioned before, the cars actually have a similar performance level.

Hmmm..... i don't think an F1 car would stand much of a chance around the Indy 500 as Indy cars are going lap after lap at 229+mph, so any comparison is a bit pointless really, they're apples and oranges.

(The lap record was set over decade ago at 237.49 mph)

I really don't get this opinion. An F1 car wouldn't be at peak performance on an oval - the regenerative technology wouldn't work properly, at least for the brakes - but even without the MGU-K the F1 engine produces more power, and if the Indy 500 was on the F1 calendar they would have a dedicated aerodynamic package for it.

Comparisons are pointless because F1 cars are designed to be as fast as possible and IndyCars are designed to produce good racing, not because an IndyCar would ever be faster than an F1 car.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:02 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
PT03 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tim3003 wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
There's a few things F1 could learn from Indycar. More pit stops equal more drama, especially when you add fuel usage to the calculations. More parity between the teams equals better racing. I'm not talking about a spec series, but a financial cap would help even the field. Look at it this way. If F1 had a race without Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull, who would be favored to win?


. Surely Indy is really more like GP2..

Yes that's been mentioned before, the cars actually have a similar performance level.

Hmmm..... i don't think an F1 car would stand much of a chance around the Indy 500 as Indy cars are going lap after lap at 229+mph, so any comparison is a bit pointless really, they're apples and oranges.

(The lap record was set over decade ago at 237.49 mph)

I really don't get this opinion. An F1 car wouldn't be at peak performance on an oval - the regenerative technology wouldn't work properly, at least for the brakes - but even without the MGU-K the F1 engine produces more power, and if the Indy 500 was on the F1 calendar they would have a dedicated aerodynamic package for it.

Comparisons are pointless because F1 cars are designed to be as fast as possible and IndyCars are designed to produce good racing, not because an IndyCar would ever be faster than an F1 car.


ok.....maybe you missed the apples and oranges bit then. :?


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:24 pm 
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PT03 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
PT03 wrote:
Hmmm..... i don't think an F1 car would stand much of a chance around the Indy 500 as Indy cars are going lap after lap at 229+mph, so any comparison is a bit pointless really, they're apples and oranges.

(The lap record was set over decade ago at 237.49 mph)

I really don't get this opinion. An F1 car wouldn't be at peak performance on an oval - the regenerative technology wouldn't work properly, at least for the brakes - but even without the MGU-K the F1 engine produces more power, and if the Indy 500 was on the F1 calendar they would have a dedicated aerodynamic package for it.

Comparisons are pointless because F1 cars are designed to be as fast as possible and IndyCars are designed to produce good racing, not because an IndyCar would ever be faster than an F1 car.

ok.....maybe you missed the apples and oranges bit then. :?

No, I specifically addressed it. I agree that comparing them is pointless, just not for the reason you gave (that IndyCars are faster on ovals).

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:37 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Comparisons are pointless because F1 cars are designed to be as fast as possible and IndyCars are designed to produce good racing, not because an IndyCar would ever be faster than an F1 car.


A most interesting observation. I suspect that IndyCar would be most happy to accept that description. Would F1?
;)

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:48 pm 
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PT03 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tim3003 wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
There's a few things F1 could learn from Indycar. More pit stops equal more drama, especially when you add fuel usage to the calculations. More parity between the teams equals better racing. I'm not talking about a spec series, but a financial cap would help even the field. Look at it this way. If F1 had a race without Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull, who would be favored to win?


. Surely Indy is really more like GP2..

Yes that's been mentioned before, the cars actually have a similar performance level.


Hmmm..... i don't think an F1 car would stand much of a chance around the Indy 500 as Indy cars are going lap after lap at 229+mph, so any comparison is a bit pointless really, they're apples and oranges.

(The lap record was set over decade ago at 237.49 mph)

I think if you put a F1 car on the track it would lap quicker than an Indycar.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:52 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Comparisons are pointless because F1 cars are designed to be as fast as possible and IndyCars are designed to produce good racing, not because an IndyCar would ever be faster than an F1 car.


A most interesting observation. I suspect that IndyCar would be most happy to accept that description. Would F1?
;)

You don't think the fact that they redesigned the F1 cars this year to try and make the racing better is an acceptance that the racing could be better?

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:22 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
IndyCars are designed to produce good racing

That’s not at all the case… Indy cars are merely commissioned from a sole supplier so with the package being identical across the board, you’re going to get good racing. The addition of them running on high speed tracks with wide turns is leading you to believe something that isn’t at all true. Every other series with spec cars produce similar results which is telling that when identical cars run, the action is goin to be closer than not. However, the loooooong straights in Indy means EVERY GOOD DRIVER can draft and set himself up to make passes, lap after lap. There are very few guys who can do exceedingly well in Indy without relying on traditional lines and strategies and one of the best ever was Michael Andretti with his preference for triangulated dissection of corners that he found was faster than a smooth swept turn. That’s not something that’s possible with the current car. If you deviate from the norm you’ll plummet backwards in a hurry.

Indy today is a far cry to the golden era of C.A.R.T. Where you had extremely superb chassis from multiple manufacturers and excellent engines from varying manufacturers, and CART was the greatest overall series – possibly of all time – because they contested course tracks, temporary street circuits and ovals and the drivers were excellent and the stategizing and team work was top notch, and you’d be hard pressed to find a more action packed series ANYWHERE, ever!

Indy today might be a hair faster, but it’s nowhere close to the CART days.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:56 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
PT03 wrote:

(The lap record was set over decade ago at 237.49 mph)

I think if you put a F1 car on the track it would lap quicker than an Indycar.


Not without significant modification, if we are talking about Indianapolis, and perhaps some other high speed ovals. I wouldn't argue that an F1 car could be made to turn in a faster lap...in qualifying, perhaps. One has to remember the two cars are designed for different purposes. It is the IndyCar that strays from its original intent when it goes road racing, just as F1 cars were not designed for 300+mph high speed qualifying and 500 mile races.
Just as I would bet big money on an F1 car beating an IndyCar at Spa, I'd place my money on the IndyCar at the Indy 500.

Why is it so important to "big up" F1 more than it already is??? I don't care if an F2 car is as fast as an IndyCar, it is irrelevant. I just like the fact I can watch and enjoy both.

_------------

Regarding CART.
While the racing was often good, don't forget the series FAILED for a number of reasons, not the least of which was embarrassing mismanagement and failure to accept from the start the significance of the Indy 500. And NO, Mercenary, not every good driver can drive the long straights and fast turns it Indy well.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:19 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
PT03 wrote:

(The lap record was set over decade ago at 237.49 mph)

I think if you put a F1 car on the track it would lap quicker than an Indycar.


Not without significant modification, if we are talking about Indianapolis, and perhaps some other high speed ovals. I wouldn't argue that an F1 car could be made to turn in a faster lap...in qualifying, perhaps. One has to remember the two cars are designed for different purposes. It is the IndyCar that strays from its original intent when it goes road racing, just as F1 cars were not designed for 300+mph high speed qualifying and 500 mile races.
Just as I would bet big money on an F1 car beating an IndyCar at Spa, I'd place my money on the IndyCar at the Indy 500.

Why is it so important to "big up" F1 more than it already is??? I don't care if an F2 car is as fast as an IndyCar, it is irrelevant. I just like the fact I can watch and enjoy both.

_------------

Regarding CART.
While the racing was often good, don't forget the series FAILED for a number of reasons, not the least of which was embarrassing mismanagement and failure to accept from the start the significance of the Indy 500. And NO, Mercenary, not every good driver can drive the long straights and fast turns it Indy well.

Yes on an out and out fastest lap, a F1 car would probably not win Le Mans either but then again it's not designed as an endurance car but simply as the out and out fastest closed circuit car.

Usian Bolt was the fastest man in the world but he gets beat if he has to run a 800M race, I'm replying to the guy who's trying to say an Indycar is quicker than a F1 car because of the high speeds at Indy.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:12 am 
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https://www.planetf1.com/news/drs-is-a- ... of-racing/

The poor quality of racing stems from the design of the cars and sometimes, the design of the circuit. Both of those things could be fixed if there was the will to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:27 pm 
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As someone who has been watching F1 since the mid 90's, it's current state is a mixed bag. The sport really lacks the old personalities (although that may change with the younger guns). The racing is decent, but there has been way too much Mercedes dominance lately (worse than anything Ferrari or Williams produced). I think if the field were a bit more competitive, we could have awesome F1. I do miss the old V10 loud engines, and the really fast cars, but I understand why the changes happened.

Imo, it's definitely down from the late 90's and late 2000's, but a bit better than the early/mid 2000's. But I think it could be a lot better.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:48 pm 
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Tassadar wrote:
I do miss the old V10 loud engines, and the really fast cars, but I understand why the changes happened.

There have never been faster cars than the current ones, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:38 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
F1 cars have outgrown Albert Park. The modern F1 car is too big (dimensionally) and too fast for these circuits:

Albert Park
Catalunya
Monaco
Hungaroring
Maybe even Suzuka


Hungaroring has produced more good races than most since 2014.


The circuit is awful for overtaking, the weather and tyres normally make it interesting. Watching Vettel stuck behind Bottas until Bottas tyres eventually gave up showed that.

2015 had no rain. And it was epic. Hungaroring has done surprisingly well despite the cars getting bigger

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:03 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Tassadar wrote:
I do miss the old V10 loud engines, and the really fast cars, but I understand why the changes happened.

There have never been faster cars than the current ones, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.

It's actually worth switching between footage of your fondest remembered period of F1 and the current cars if you can. You can complain about the noise if you want, but they are absolute rocket ships.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:13 am 
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wolfticket wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Tassadar wrote:
I do miss the old V10 loud engines, and the really fast cars, but I understand why the changes happened.

There have never been faster cars than the current ones, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.

It's actually worth switching between footage of your fondest remembered period of F1 and the current cars if you can. You can complain about the noise if you want, but they are absolute rocket ships.

How can they be rocket ships when the lap times are not quicker?

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 Post subject: Re: F1 is boring
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:20 am 
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pokerman wrote:
wolfticket wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Tassadar wrote:
I do miss the old V10 loud engines, and the really fast cars, but I understand why the changes happened.

There have never been faster cars than the current ones, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.

It's actually worth switching between footage of your fondest remembered period of F1 and the current cars if you can. You can complain about the noise if you want, but they are absolute rocket ships.

How can they be rocket ships when the lap times are not quicker?

They are quicker. Taken as a whole generation, the 2017-present cars are the quickest ever, with 2019 looking likely to set new records at every track where it doesn't rain. They are far quicker than any previous generation, even the mid-2000s V10 cars that were originally brought up.

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