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There is not much racing going on in F1. Instead of 1st & 2nd separated by a few tenths of seconds, Bottas had almost a half minute cushion. He could of stopped in the pits and had a brew and still won! There wasn't much going on in the mid-field either. As it is, the best passing takes place in the pits! Indy may not have the sophisticated cars that are in F1 and world's best drivers, but the racing is far more exciting.

ptr250 wrote:There is not much racing going on in F1. Instead of 1st & 2nd separated by a few tenths of seconds, Bottas had almost a half minute cushion. He could of stopped in the pits and had a brew and still won! There wasn't much going on in the mid-field either. As it is, the best passing takes place in the pits! Indy may not have the sophisticated cars that are in F1 and world's best drivers, but the racing is far more exciting.

The track is not great for racing on, if you watch F1 you would know that.

Is F1 boring or is Australia boring?

It sucks the the season usually needs to start with a whimper.

If u don’t like it, don’t watch it. Simple as that.
There were PLENTY of exciting on track battles at Albert Park, just not much up front, but Hamilton’s floor was significantly damaged to the point the team have said a chunk of it was missing. That left Hamilton’s car pretty off balance, and add to that the muchbtoo early pit stop and he was forced to push only to limit, and given the damage, he had to take that down a notch more to ensure he didn’t jeopardize his finishing position.

Verstappen made some nice overtakes and so did others, and Kvyat drove well as did Stroll and Bottas’s speed was at the very least quite interesting.

I think the OP is one of those people who god to see a movie that features impossible scenes and walks out saying, meh I was expecting more.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:If u don’t like it, don’t watch it. Simple as that.
There were PLENTY of exciting on track battles at Albert Park, just not much up front, but Hamilton’s floor was significantly damaged to the point the team have said a chunk of it was missing. That left Hamilton’s car pretty off balance, and add to that the muchbtoo early pit stop and he was forced to push only to limit, and given the damage, he had to take that down a notch more to ensure he didn’t jeopardize his finishing position.

Verstappen made some nice overtakes and so did others, and Kvyat drove well as did Stroll and Bottas’s speed was at the very least quite interesting.

I think the OP is one of those people who god to see a movie that features impossible scenes and walks out saying, meh I was expecting more.

I kinda wonder how long the OP has been watching the sport. A few 10th's between 1st & 2nd? F1 has NEVER been that kind of sport.

For all it's faults, the racing these days is probably the tightest it's been in all the 30 odd years I've been tuning in.

Altair wrote:Is F1 boring or is Australia boring?

It sucks the the season usually needs to start with a whimper.

1996
1997
1999
2001
2002
2003
2005
2006
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013

All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

F1 cars have outgrown Albert Park. The modern F1 car is too big (dimensionally) and too fast for these circuits:

Albert Park
Catalunya
Monaco
Hungaroring
Maybe even Suzuka

mikeyg123 wrote:All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

The cars have.

They are noticeably bigger and faster than ever before.

KingVoid wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

The cars have.

They are noticeably bigger and faster than ever before.

Yeah. Faster cars obviously have the effect of shortening the circuit & the natural result of that a reduction in overtaking opportunities.

Golf courses must evolve to remain a challenge for players constantly using the latest in club & ball technology, so ideally I suppose circuits should be doing the same.

Jezza13 wrote:

F1 MERCENARY wrote:If u don’t like it, don’t watch it. Simple as that.
There were PLENTY of exciting on track battles at Albert Park, just not much up front, but Hamilton’s floor was significantly damaged to the point the team have said a chunk of it was missing. That left Hamilton’s car pretty off balance, and add to that the muchbtoo early pit stop and he was forced to push only to limit, and given the damage, he had to take that down a notch more to ensure he didn’t jeopardize his finishing position.

Verstappen made some nice overtakes and so did others, and Kvyat drove well as did Stroll and Bottas’s speed was at the very least quite interesting.

I think the OP is one of those people who god to see a movie that features impossible scenes and walks out saying, meh I was expecting more.

I kinda wonder how long the OP has been watching the sport. A few 10th's between 1st & 2nd? F1 has NEVER been that kind of sport.

For all it's faults, the racing these days is probably the tightest it's been in all the 30 odd years I've been tuning in.

The last couple of years there hasnt been much in it between Ferrari and Mercedes at alot of tracks, the biggest problem is you need to be 1.5 - 2 seconds faster than the car in front to even try an overtake,

KingVoid wrote:F1 cars have outgrown Albert Park. The modern F1 car is too big (dimensionally) and too fast for these circuits:

Albert Park
Catalunya
Monaco
Hungaroring
Maybe even Suzuka

Hungaroring has produced more good races than most since 2014.

Jezza13 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

The cars have.

They are noticeably bigger and faster than ever before.

Yeah. Faster cars obviously have the effect of shortening the circuit & the natural result of that a reduction in overtaking opportunities.

Golf courses must evolve to remain a challenge for players constantly using the latest in club & ball technology, so ideally I suppose circuits should be doing the same.

Then you end up with all circuits having the same characteristics. I'd rather see a grid with both Monaco and Shanghai than just all of one or the other.

mikeyg123 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:F1 cars have outgrown Albert Park. The modern F1 car is too big (dimensionally) and too fast for these circuits:

Albert Park
Catalunya
Monaco
Hungaroring
Maybe even Suzuka

Hungaroring has produced more good races than most since 2014.

The circuit is awful for overtaking, the weather and tyres normally make it interesting. Watching Vettel stuck behind Bottas until Bottas tyres eventually gave up showed that.

mikeyg123 wrote:1996
1997
1999
2001
2002
2003
2005
2006
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013

All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

I don't think most of those would have satisfied the OPs desire for a few tenths between the leading cars and passes up and down the field. Has there ever been a race at Albert Park that met those criteria?

F1_Ernie wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:F1 cars have outgrown Albert Park. The modern F1 car is too big (dimensionally) and too fast for these circuits:

Albert Park
Catalunya
Monaco
Hungaroring
Maybe even Suzuka

Hungaroring has produced more good races than most since 2014.

The circuit is awful for overtaking, the weather and tyres normally make it interesting. Watching Vettel stuck behind Bottas until Bottas tyres eventually gave up showed that.

Loads of overtaking at recent races.

Exediron wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:1996
1997
1999
2001
2002
2003
2005
2006
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013

All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

I don't think most of those would have satisfied the OPs desire for a few tenths between the leading cars and passes up and down the field. Has there ever been a race at Albert Park that met those criteria?

2006 and 2011 for sure.

mikeyg123 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:F1 cars have outgrown Albert Park. The modern F1 car is too big (dimensionally) and too fast for these circuits:

Albert Park
Catalunya
Monaco
Hungaroring
Maybe even Suzuka

Hungaroring has produced more good races than most since 2014.

The circuit is awful for overtaking, the weather and tyres normally make it interesting. Watching Vettel stuck behind Bottas until Bottas tyres eventually gave up showed that.

Loads of overtaking at recent races.

Good races and being able to overtake between the leading cars are two different things. Good races can depend on weather and tyres, doesn't neccessarily mean it's a good track for overtaking. China last year had 0 overtakes and was boring until the SC came out, out of the blue it became a good race which the teams didn't expect, it doesn't hide the fact it was impossible to overtake until that point. I would say at least half the circuits at the moment are extremely difficult for the leading cars to overtake.

F1_Ernie wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:F1 cars have outgrown Albert Park. The modern F1 car is too big (dimensionally) and too fast for these circuits:

Albert Park
Catalunya
Monaco
Hungaroring
Maybe even Suzuka

Hungaroring has produced more good races than most since 2014.

The circuit is awful for overtaking, the weather and tyres normally make it interesting. Watching Vettel stuck behind Bottas until Bottas tyres eventually gave up showed that.

Loads of overtaking at recent races.

Good races and being able to overtake between the leading cars are two different things. Good races can depend on weather and tyres, doesn't neccessarily mean it's a good track for overtaking. China last year had 0 overtakes and was boring until the SC came out, out of the blue it became a good race which the teams didn't expect, it doesn't hide the fact it was impossible to overtake until that point. I would say at least half the circuits at the moment are extremely difficult for the leading cars to overtake.

But the problem is the cars not the circuits. Overtaking isn't the be all and end all anyway TBH. A slam dunk overtake is not very exciting.

KingVoid wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

The cars have.

They are noticeably bigger and faster than ever before.

That's what I wanted to answer when I saw your post...
Being faster is not a problem, drivers adapt the speed to the track, that's their work. But the evolution of the size is one of the numerous problems that have been added year after year, on the pretext of making things better.

Jezza13 wrote:

F1 MERCENARY wrote:If u don’t like it, don’t watch it. Simple as that.
There were PLENTY of exciting on track battles at Albert Park, just not much up front, but Hamilton’s floor was significantly damaged to the point the team have said a chunk of it was missing. That left Hamilton’s car pretty off balance, and add to that the muchbtoo early pit stop and he was forced to push only to limit, and given the damage, he had to take that down a notch more to ensure he didn’t jeopardize his finishing position.

Verstappen made some nice overtakes and so did others, and Kvyat drove well as did Stroll and Bottas’s speed was at the very least quite interesting.

I think the OP is one of those people who god to see a movie that features impossible scenes and walks out saying, meh I was expecting more.

I kinda wonder how long the OP has been watching the sport. A few 10th's between 1st & 2nd? F1 has NEVER been that kind of sport.

For all it's faults, the racing these days is probably the tightest it's been in all the 30 odd years I've been tuning in.

I agree the midfield is as tight as I ever remember it.

Just their is still a small but significant gap between F1 and F1.5.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:The OP's post clearly shows someone who didn't bother to watch or pay attention to the race. Yes, Bottas finished 20+ seconds clear of Hamilton, but the reasons for that were part of the reasons the race was fascinating. We didn't know who was going to finish second, we had the top three prepping Qualifying modes before the penultimate lap to make a run on the fastest lap. We had Gasly Vs Kyvat, Leclerc chasing down Vettel. Vettel and Hamilton compromising their race and jeopardising their potential to reach the end by stopping too early. Was it was five way scrap with chopping and changing until the flag, no. But it wasn't a procession. Formula One has never been like that in the last 30 years, yet it is one of the most successful sports on the planet, so it doesn't need to become like that to be successful. Formula One is about the details, and if you bother to look at them this race was a reasonable one.

Exactly it's the fine details that make F1 fascinating also let's not forget there was no safety cars, other race series often have multiple safety cars to bunch up the field thus making the end result that much closer.

[quote= TBH. A slam dunk overtake is not very exciting.[/quote]

is'nt that because a 'slam dunk' overtake is more than likely going to be because of DRS......brought in because ..ohh yes to get more (fake) overtaking. The race that i saw was boring.....to each his own i suppose.

I think the op's post could have been dialled in from 1995

Responding to him gives him credit

KingVoid wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

The cars have.

They are noticeably bigger and faster than ever before.

True. Look the increase in length 1991-2012.

Source: Unknown uploader under the PayasYouRace name@tinypic

mikeyg123 wrote:

Exediron wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:1996
1997
1999
2001
2002
2003
2005
2006
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013

All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

I don't think most of those would have satisfied the OPs desire for a few tenths between the leading cars and passes up and down the field. Has there ever been a race at Albert Park that met those criteria?

2006 and 2011 for sure.

I didn't watch the 2006 Australian GP, so I can't comment with firsthand knowledge on that one - but I believe it featured multiple safety cars that artificially bunched the pack together. Any race involving safety cars at or past the midpoint is always closer.

As for 2011, I don't agree. Tyre strategy may have made it look close, but in reality Vettel had a huge advantage and he finished over 20 seconds ahead, with a damaged Hamilton behind him - kind of like this year's GP, actually.

Exediron wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

Exediron wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:1996
1997
1999
2001
2002
2003
2005
2006
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013

All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

I don't think most of those would have satisfied the OPs desire for a few tenths between the leading cars and passes up and down the field. Has there ever been a race at Albert Park that met those criteria?

2006 and 2011 for sure.

I didn't watch the 2006 Australian GP, so I can't comment with firsthand knowledge on that one - but I believe it featured multiple safety cars that artificially bunched the pack together. Any race involving safety cars at or past the midpoint is always closer.

As for 2011, I don't agree. Tyre strategy may have made it look close, but in reality Vettel had a huge advantage and he finished over 20 seconds ahead, with a damaged Hamilton behind him - kind of like this year's GP, actually.

Sorry I mean 2010 not 2011. Or perhaps 2012? The one Button won in the wet. 2006 had loads of jostling for position. I don't think you can right off a race because XYZ happened to make it exciting. F1 lines cars up by speed order. It needs something unusual to happen to make any race exciting.

mikeyg123 wrote:

Exediron wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

Exediron wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:1996
1997
1999
2001
2002
2003
2005
2006
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013

All good races in Australia. The circuit hasn't changed since then.

I don't think most of those would have satisfied the OPs desire for a few tenths between the leading cars and passes up and down the field. Has there ever been a race at Albert Park that met those criteria?

2006 and 2011 for sure.

I didn't watch the 2006 Australian GP, so I can't comment with firsthand knowledge on that one - but I believe it featured multiple safety cars that artificially bunched the pack together. Any race involving safety cars at or past the midpoint is always closer.

As for 2011, I don't agree. Tyre strategy may have made it look close, but in reality Vettel had a huge advantage and he finished over 20 seconds ahead, with a damaged Hamilton behind him - kind of like this year's GP, actually.

Sorry I mean 2010 not 2011. Or perhaps 2012? The one Button won in the wet. 2006 had loads of jostling for position. I don't think you can right off a race because XYZ happened to make it exciting. F1 lines cars up by speed order. It needs something unusual to happen to make any race exciting.

2010, any wet race is good by default.

ptr250 wrote:There is not much racing going on in F1. Instead of 1st & 2nd separated by a few tenths of seconds, Bottas had almost a half minute cushion. He could of stopped in the pits and had a brew and still won! There wasn't much going on in the mid-field either. As it is, the best passing takes place in the pits! Indy may not have the sophisticated cars that are in F1 and world's best drivers, but the racing is far more exciting.

If you are only interested in 1st and 2nd - you are not a race fan! You are bandwagon fan.

Racing is where you find it - in the field, especially the mid-field there is a lot of racing taking place - the middle 6 team are as equal as reality can permit.

MB, Ferrari and RB are in a world of their own at the pointed end of the grid - Team Willy is also in a world of its own at the boat anchor end of the grid.

mmi16 wrote:

ptr250 wrote:There is not much racing going on in F1. Instead of 1st & 2nd separated by a few tenths of seconds, Bottas had almost a half minute cushion. He could of stopped in the pits and had a brew and still won! There wasn't much going on in the mid-field either. As it is, the best passing takes place in the pits! Indy may not have the sophisticated cars that are in F1 and world's best drivers, but the racing is far more exciting.

If you are only interested in 1st and 2nd - you are not a race fan! You are bandwagon fan.

Racing is where you find it - in the field, especially the mid-field there is a lot of racing taking place - the middle 6 team are as equal as reality can permit.

MB, Ferrari and RB are in a world of their own at the pointed end of the grid - Team Willy is also in a world of its own at the boat anchor end of the grid.

That's BS! How many overtakes in the mid-field? The Alfa driver on shot tires held up a number of cars for multiple laps, because nobody could pass. I'm sorry but F1 in its current state is boring.

ptr250 wrote:

mmi16 wrote:

ptr250 wrote:There is not much racing going on in F1. Instead of 1st & 2nd separated by a few tenths of seconds, Bottas had almost a half minute cushion. He could of stopped in the pits and had a brew and still won! There wasn't much going on in the mid-field either. As it is, the best passing takes place in the pits! Indy may not have the sophisticated cars that are in F1 and world's best drivers, but the racing is far more exciting.

If you are only interested in 1st and 2nd - you are not a race fan! You are bandwagon fan.

Racing is where you find it - in the field, especially the mid-field there is a lot of racing taking place - the middle 6 team are as equal as reality can permit.

MB, Ferrari and RB are in a world of their own at the pointed end of the grid - Team Willy is also in a world of its own at the boat anchor end of the grid.

That's BS! How many overtakes in the mid-field? The Alfa driver on shot tires held up a number of cars for multiple laps, because nobody could pass. I'm sorry but F1 in its current state is boring.

How many times has it to be repeated that it's the track that's mainly the problem.

Last year my best mate came to visit and we watched the first race of the season, he is not familiar with the machinations of F1 and he thought it was totally boring. He also visited for the second race and was on the edge of his seat for nearly 2 hours and thought it was brilliant!

But hey I get what you’re saying; sometimes you do need to be a bit of an F1 geek to get enjoyment from many of the races. I do also concede that it might a good idea for the casual fan if the first race were at a more exciting venue.

Indy car is at COTA for the first time this weekend. It will be interesting to compare the "racing" between the two series.

ptr250 wrote:Indy car is at COTA for the first time this weekend. It will be interesting to compare the "racing" between the two series.

We already know what will happen, so why? Everyone knows IndyCars can follow each other more closely and overtake more easily. It's not some sort of great mystery. F1 is better if you value the best technology and the best drivers over the best on-track action. If all you want is exciting racing between closely matched cars, F1 has never been the right thing for you.

ptr250 wrote:Indy car is at COTA for the first time this weekend. It will be interesting to compare the "racing" between the two series.

Anyone want to guess what the deficit will be to an F1 car as far as lap time?

If they are within 5 secs of last year's cars I will be impressed.

kleefton wrote:

ptr250 wrote:Indy car is at COTA for the first time this weekend. It will be interesting to compare the "racing" between the two series.

Anyone want to guess what the deficit will be to an F1 car as far as lap time?

If they are within 5 secs of last year's cars I will be impressed.

They're not going to be. It was more than 15 seconds down based on testing; they'll go a little faster than that in qualifying trim, but not within 5 seconds. I'd guess between 10 and 12 seconds off, pole time to pole time.

ptr250 wrote:

mmi16 wrote:

ptr250 wrote:There is not much racing going on in F1. Instead of 1st & 2nd separated by a few tenths of seconds, Bottas had almost a half minute cushion. He could of stopped in the pits and had a brew and still won! There wasn't much going on in the mid-field either. As it is, the best passing takes place in the pits! Indy may not have the sophisticated cars that are in F1 and world's best drivers, but the racing is far more exciting.

If you are only interested in 1st and 2nd - you are not a race fan! You are bandwagon fan.

Racing is where you find it - in the field, especially the mid-field there is a lot of racing taking place - the middle 6 team are as equal as reality can permit.

MB, Ferrari and RB are in a world of their own at the pointed end of the grid - Team Willy is also in a world of its own at the boat anchor end of the grid.

That's BS! How many overtakes in the mid-field? The Alfa driver on shot tires held up a number of cars for multiple laps, because nobody could pass. I'm sorry but F1 in its current state is boring.

But this isn't true. He was passed twice, let another past and then Norris couldn't pass him. Once Norris passed another two went buy. He was overtaken by 5 cars 4 of them quickly.

Personally I wold much rather see a 5 lap battle than an easy overtake anyway. What's exciting about that?

Exediron wrote:

ptr250 wrote:Indy car is at COTA for the first time this weekend. It will be interesting to compare the "racing" between the two series.

We already know what will happen, so why? Everyone knows IndyCars can follow each other more closely and overtake more easily. It's not some sort of great mystery. F1 is better if you value the best technology and the best drivers over the best on-track action. If all you want is exciting racing between closely matched cars, F1 has never been the right thing for you.

Indeed.

There is a lot more to racing than overtaking and banging wheels.

ptr250 wrote:Indy car is at COTA for the first time this weekend. It will be interesting to compare the "racing" between the two series.

I will be watching the race and I definitely now will be critiquing it.

Exediron wrote:

kleefton wrote:

ptr250 wrote:Indy car is at COTA for the first time this weekend. It will be interesting to compare the "racing" between the two series.

Anyone want to guess what the deficit will be to an F1 car as far as lap time?

If they are within 5 secs of last year's cars I will be impressed.

They're not going to be. It was more than 15 seconds down based on testing; they'll go a little faster than that in qualifying trim, but not within 5 seconds. I'd guess between 10 and 12 seconds off, pole time to pole time.

So basically they are no faster than a F2 car and also like F2 a spec series, this is what we are comparing with F1?