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We're back! And this is easily my favourite TMW thread of the season as it doesn't involve any calculations or write-ups on my part

For those of you who are new, or who simply chose not to participate last year, after every race I'll be posting one of these threads. Attached to it will be the results from the last race, the totals for the season, and usually some kind of rambling on my part about trends, statistics and anything else I think is vaguely worth touching upon. There will also be a poll, which will feature the names of all 20 drivers. It is then up to you, the PF1 forum users, to pick the one driver from each team you feel did the better job at that grand prix.

How you come to that determination is entirely up to you. Some people put a heavy emphasis on the race, some give more weight to qualifying (or even the overall weekend if there are mistakes in practice). Some will abstain from really tough choices, or situations where one driver was heavily compromised through no fault of his own. Some people opt to post who they voted for, perhaps with an explanation as to why, while others will just vote. All good. What we learned from this last year is a lot of the time there is an obvious answer within each specific team at each specific race. We also inevitably get rogue voters but thankfully, we always had enough votes so that it didn't really affect the result. Certainly no worse than when Andrew Davies used to write the TMW posts for the PF1 website!

Where I can, I'll leave the poll open for a week. For short turnarounds, I'll leave it open until FP1 at the next race. Sometimes life (the cheek of it!) gets in the way and delays the post or forces me to rush it a little. ...Man, this thread's already gone on longer than I wanted it to, so I'll shut up and let you all vote

Obvious ones first: Bottas, Verstappen, Hulkenberg, Raikkonen, Norris, Kvyat and Russel.

As for the less clear-cut cases...

I went for Leclerc over Vettel, because I feel on balance he was better. Vettel was only really better in Q3 over the significant parts of the weekend, and was quite poor in the race. I could see this one going either way, however.

I chose Magnussen at Haas. Grosjean may have beaten him in qualifying, but only by a small margin, and KMag looked the stronger of the two while they were both running.

For Racing Point I chose Stroll. Perez may have beaten him in qualifying, but there was traffic involved, and in the race Lance was the more impressive of the two. If he keeps this up, he's going to be upsetting a lot of people's expectations - mine included.

Exediron wrote:Obvious ones first: Bottas, Verstappen, Hulkenberg, Raikkonen, Norris, Kvyat and Russel.

As for the less clear-cut cases...

I went for Leclerc over Vettel, because I feel on balance he was better. Vettel was only really better in Q3 over the significant parts of the weekend, and was quite poor in the race. I could see this one going either way, however.

I chose Magnussen at Haas. Grosjean may have beaten him in qualifying, but only by a small margin, and KMag looked the stronger of the two while they were both running.

For Racing Point I chose Stroll. Perez may have beaten him in qualifying, but there was traffic involved, and in the race Lance was the more impressive of the two. If he keeps this up, he's going to be upsetting a lot of people's expectations - mine included.

To be fair to Perez; his race was ruined by Giovinazzi. Stroll wasn't making miraculous overtakes out there; he was just far enough back that he didn't get held up in that train.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:We're back! And this is easily my favourite TMW thread of the season as it doesn't involve any calculations or write-ups on my part

For those of you who are new, or who simply chose not to participate last year, after every race I'll be posting one of these threads. Attached to it will be the results from the last race, the totals for the season, and usually some kind of rambling on my part about trends, statistics and anything else I think is vaguely worth touching upon. There will also be a poll, which will feature the names of all 20 drivers. It is then up to you, the PF1 forum users, to pick the one driver from each team you feel did the better job at that grand prix.

How you come to that determination is entirely up to you. Some people put a heavy emphasis on the race, some give more weight to qualifying (or even the overall weekend if there are mistakes in practice). Some will abstain from really tough choices, or situations where one driver was heavily compromised through no fault of his own. Some people opt to post who they voted for, perhaps with an explanation as to why, while others will just vote. All good. What we learned from this last year is a lot of the time there is an obvious answer within each specific team at each specific race. We also inevitably get rogue voters but thankfully, we always had enough votes so that it didn't really affect the result. Certainly no worse than when Andrew Davies used to write the TMW posts for the PF1 website!

Where I can, I'll leave the poll open for a week. For short turnarounds, I'll leave it open until FP1 at the next race. Sometimes life (the cheek of it!) gets in the way and delays the post or forces me to rush it a little. ...Man, this thread's already gone on longer than I wanted it to, so I'll shut up and let you all vote

J.U.
Thanks for hosting these threads again this year. It's always fun and informative to see how folks balance out the performance of team mates against each other.

I kind of hated to vote against Hamilton, Ricciardo, Sainz, and Grosjean since much or all of their problems in the race were not of their own making. Still these four were beaten soundly by their team mates.

Yes, Giovinazzi's Sirotkin-Singapore-style performance shuffled Stroll and Kvyat into the points (with Gasly blowing his chance). Magnussen pressured Giovinazzi into a mistake which also benefited Hülkenberg (Räikkönen was let through, obviously). The others failed to do so until it was too late. The Dane does not get much credit for this crucial move since many forumers do not like him.

The Vettel/Leclerc one is quite interesting, Vettel was beating Leclerc quite easily until he was pitted early and that seemed to do for Vettel's race, if Vettel had not pitted early would Leclerc have managed to challenge him late in the race, I'm guessing not?

pokerman wrote:The Vettel/Leclerc one is quite interesting, Vettel was beating Leclerc quite easily until he was pitted early and that seemed to do for Vettel's race, if Vettel had not pitted early would Leclerc have managed to challenge him late in the race, I'm guessing not?

You're guessing, but you don't know.

Vettel may have ended up on the wrong strategy, but that doesn't excuse him in my eyes for being just plain slow in his second stint (and letting himself become the victim of one of the few on-track overtakes among equal cars).

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:The Vettel/Leclerc one is quite interesting, Vettel was beating Leclerc quite easily until he was pitted early and that seemed to do for Vettel's race, if Vettel had not pitted early would Leclerc have managed to challenge him late in the race, I'm guessing not?

You're guessing, but you don't know.

Vettel may have ended up on the wrong strategy, but that doesn't excuse him in my eyes for being just plain slow in his second stint (and letting himself become the victim of one of the few on-track overtakes among equal cars).

Simply looking at it Vettel won this battle because he qualified and finished ahead of Leclerc. On lap 9 Leclerc made an unforced error by running wide onto the grass, and as Brundle pointed out he can not make this kind of mistake in a top team, and he fell behind in the first stint. Among equal cars and strategy then Leclerc should be closer to Verstappen which he wasn't. Bad race for Ferrari as their strategy for both cars was questionable: 1) pitting Vettel so early trying to undercut Hamilton, and under threat later in the race from cars on fresher tyres 2) pitting Leclerc on lap 28 with hard compound, while Verstappen pitted on lap 25 on medium 3) not pitting either cars to go for fastest lap when there was no threat.

Surprised that nobody has gone for Grosjean. He outqualified Magnussen by nearly 3 tenths. Magnussen made a better start but Grosjean kept up with him. Grosjean's pit stop was about 8 seconds slower. Magnussen came out in free air but Grosjean came out in traffic, but actually closed the gap to magnussen to around 6 seconds. But then the traffic and his problem started increasing the gap. Grosjean was rather under rated. I haven't voted yet, but certainly would go for him based on the weekend's performance that we saw. If he was as quick as he was coming out of the pits, he could well have had magnussen pretty soon without pit stop problems.

Magnussen was ahead at the last stage they could be compared. Grosjean qualified better but Magnussen more than over cane that at the start, hence being ahead.

I think all others beside the Ferrari duo are slam dunk. Went for Vettel but it was close.

sandman1347 wrote:

Exediron wrote:Obvious ones first: Bottas, Verstappen, Hulkenberg, Raikkonen, Norris, Kvyat and Russel.

As for the less clear-cut cases...

I went for Leclerc over Vettel, because I feel on balance he was better. Vettel was only really better in Q3 over the significant parts of the weekend, and was quite poor in the race. I could see this one going either way, however.

I chose Magnussen at Haas. Grosjean may have beaten him in qualifying, but only by a small margin, and KMag looked the stronger of the two while they were both running.

For Racing Point I chose Stroll. Perez may have beaten him in qualifying, but there was traffic involved, and in the race Lance was the more impressive of the two. If he keeps this up, he's going to be upsetting a lot of people's expectations - mine included.

To be fair to Perez; his race was ruined by Giovinazzi. Stroll wasn't making miraculous overtakes out there; he was just far enough back that he didn't get held up in that train.

Stroll was under pressure for about half the race with Kvyat & Gasly breathing down his neck. They both were in faster cars but Stroll didn't make a single mistake & earned 2 well deserved points.

For folks saying Vettel and Leclerc was close, how close was being over 10s behind in 13 laps and on the same strategy, outside of the race start he was no where near for Vettel, all I see is some mental gymnastics going on.

Rockie wrote:For folks saying Vettel and Leclerc was close, how close was being over 10s behind in 13 laps and on the same strategy, outside of the race start he was no where near for Vettel, all I see is some mental gymnastics going on.

Apart from when he caught him up? I voted for Vettel because that was down to strategy but look at how many more votes Stroll has than Perez, also entirely down to strategy.

UnlikeUday wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

Exediron wrote:Obvious ones first: Bottas, Verstappen, Hulkenberg, Raikkonen, Norris, Kvyat and Russel.

As for the less clear-cut cases...

I went for Leclerc over Vettel, because I feel on balance he was better. Vettel was only really better in Q3 over the significant parts of the weekend, and was quite poor in the race. I could see this one going either way, however.

I chose Magnussen at Haas. Grosjean may have beaten him in qualifying, but only by a small margin, and KMag looked the stronger of the two while they were both running.

For Racing Point I chose Stroll. Perez may have beaten him in qualifying, but there was traffic involved, and in the race Lance was the more impressive of the two. If he keeps this up, he's going to be upsetting a lot of people's expectations - mine included.

To be fair to Perez; his race was ruined by Giovinazzi. Stroll wasn't making miraculous overtakes out there; he was just far enough back that he didn't get held up in that train.

Stroll was under pressure for about half the race with Kvyat & Gasly breathing down his neck. They both were in faster cars but Stroll didn't make a single mistake & earned 2 well deserved points.

Did Perez make any mistakes?

Only tough call for me was picking Vettel over Leclerc. Vettel qualified higher, and it seemed there may have been something wrong with his car.

mikeyg123 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

Exediron wrote:Obvious ones first: Bottas, Verstappen, Hulkenberg, Raikkonen, Norris, Kvyat and Russel.

As for the less clear-cut cases...

I went for Leclerc over Vettel, because I feel on balance he was better. Vettel was only really better in Q3 over the significant parts of the weekend, and was quite poor in the race. I could see this one going either way, however.

I chose Magnussen at Haas. Grosjean may have beaten him in qualifying, but only by a small margin, and KMag looked the stronger of the two while they were both running.

For Racing Point I chose Stroll. Perez may have beaten him in qualifying, but there was traffic involved, and in the race Lance was the more impressive of the two. If he keeps this up, he's going to be upsetting a lot of people's expectations - mine included.

To be fair to Perez; his race was ruined by Giovinazzi. Stroll wasn't making miraculous overtakes out there; he was just far enough back that he didn't get held up in that train.

Stroll was under pressure for about half the race with Kvyat & Gasly breathing down his neck. They both were in faster cars but Stroll didn't make a single mistake & earned 2 well deserved points.

Did Perez make any mistakes?

Not exactly a mistake but Checo lost places at the start of the race whereas Stroll picked up a few.

UnlikeUday wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

Exediron wrote:Obvious ones first: Bottas, Verstappen, Hulkenberg, Raikkonen, Norris, Kvyat and Russel.

As for the less clear-cut cases...

I went for Leclerc over Vettel, because I feel on balance he was better. Vettel was only really better in Q3 over the significant parts of the weekend, and was quite poor in the race. I could see this one going either way, however.

I chose Magnussen at Haas. Grosjean may have beaten him in qualifying, but only by a small margin, and KMag looked the stronger of the two while they were both running.

For Racing Point I chose Stroll. Perez may have beaten him in qualifying, but there was traffic involved, and in the race Lance was the more impressive of the two. If he keeps this up, he's going to be upsetting a lot of people's expectations - mine included.

To be fair to Perez; his race was ruined by Giovinazzi. Stroll wasn't making miraculous overtakes out there; he was just far enough back that he didn't get held up in that train.

Stroll was under pressure for about half the race with Kvyat & Gasly breathing down his neck. They both were in faster cars but Stroll didn't make a single mistake & earned 2 well deserved points.

Did Perez make any mistakes?

Not exactly a mistake but Checo lost places at the start of the race whereas Stroll picked up a few.

But was still behind Perez.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Surprised that nobody has gone for Grosjean. He outqualified Magnussen by nearly 3 tenths. Magnussen made a better start but Grosjean kept up with him. Grosjean's pit stop was about 8 seconds slower. Magnussen came out in free air but Grosjean came out in traffic, but actually closed the gap to magnussen to around 6 seconds. But then the traffic and his problem started increasing the gap. Grosjean was rather under rated. I haven't voted yet, but certainly would go for him based on the weekend's performance that we saw. If he was as quick as he was coming out of the pits, he could well have had magnussen pretty soon without pit stop problems.

Magnussen did came out behind Giovinazzi in that train. But in contrast to others he managed to pressure him into a mistake and took the opportunity to overtake. A strong race!

Rockie wrote:For folks saying Vettel and Leclerc was close, how close was being over 10s behind in 13 laps and on the same strategy, outside of the race start he was no where near for Vettel, all I see is some mental gymnastics going on.

Well, without TO Leclerc would have beaten Vettel, despite his early mistake...

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:

Rockie wrote:For folks saying Vettel and Leclerc was close, how close was being over 10s behind in 13 laps and on the same strategy, outside of the race start he was no where near for Vettel, all I see is some mental gymnastics going on.

Well, without TO Leclerc would have beaten Vettel, despite his early mistake...

Would he? We don't know for certain he'd have got past, it's a difficult circuit for overtaking.

mikeyg123 wrote:

Rockie wrote:For folks saying Vettel and Leclerc was close, how close was being over 10s behind in 13 laps and on the same strategy, outside of the race start he was no where near for Vettel, all I see is some mental gymnastics going on.

Apart from when he caught him up? I voted for Vettel because that was down to strategy but look at how many more votes Stroll has than Perez, also entirely down to strategy.

On the same strategy Vettel would have atleast a 30s gap to Leclerc going by what we witnessed the 1st 13 laps.

Stroll v Perez is not the same Apple vs Oranges there, when Vettel stopped Leclerc was over 10s behind in the space of 13 laps without traffic!

Rockie wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

Rockie wrote:For folks saying Vettel and Leclerc was close, how close was being over 10s behind in 13 laps and on the same strategy, outside of the race start he was no where near for Vettel, all I see is some mental gymnastics going on.

Apart from when he caught him up? I voted for Vettel because that was down to strategy but look at how many more votes Stroll has than Perez, also entirely down to strategy.

On the same strategy Vettel would have atleast a 30s gap to Leclerc going by what we witnessed the 1st 13 laps.

Stroll v Perez is not the same Apple vs Oranges there, when Vettel stopped Leclerc was over 10s behind in the space of 13 laps without traffic!

A slight exaggeration there Leclerc lost 3 seconds when he went off the track so on actual pace Leclerc was 7 seconds slower, Leclerc did double the first stint length of Vettel so if Vettel had done the same the gap would have been 17 seconds.

The only one I really had to think about was Ferrari. I gave it to Vettel, he was on the crap strategy. And Leclerc got outmuscled at the start and had a later off. Maybe if they didn't implement team orders and Leclerc nailed Vettel for 4th I might have changed my mind

UnlikeUday wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

Exediron wrote:Obvious ones first: Bottas, Verstappen, Hulkenberg, Raikkonen, Norris, Kvyat and Russel.

As for the less clear-cut cases...

I went for Leclerc over Vettel, because I feel on balance he was better. Vettel was only really better in Q3 over the significant parts of the weekend, and was quite poor in the race. I could see this one going either way, however.

I chose Magnussen at Haas. Grosjean may have beaten him in qualifying, but only by a small margin, and KMag looked the stronger of the two while they were both running.

For Racing Point I chose Stroll. Perez may have beaten him in qualifying, but there was traffic involved, and in the race Lance was the more impressive of the two. If he keeps this up, he's going to be upsetting a lot of people's expectations - mine included.

To be fair to Perez; his race was ruined by Giovinazzi. Stroll wasn't making miraculous overtakes out there; he was just far enough back that he didn't get held up in that train.

Stroll was under pressure for about half the race with Kvyat & Gasly breathing down his neck. They both were in faster cars but Stroll didn't make a single mistake & earned 2 well deserved points.

Stroll started P16 but by the end of the first lap he was P13. How he got to finish P9 is a combination of starting on the medium tire, which is always an advantage in the midfield, and the Giovanazzi train. Also Kvyatt almost overtook him but braked too late and went on the dirt. But Stroll was good. Considering the fact that this guy is expected to be one of the worst out there, it was a surprisingly good performance by him.

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Surprised that nobody has gone for Grosjean. He outqualified Magnussen by nearly 3 tenths. Magnussen made a better start but Grosjean kept up with him. Grosjean's pit stop was about 8 seconds slower. Magnussen came out in free air but Grosjean came out in traffic, but actually closed the gap to magnussen to around 6 seconds. But then the traffic and his problem started increasing the gap. Grosjean was rather under rated. I haven't voted yet, but certainly would go for him based on the weekend's performance that we saw. If he was as quick as he was coming out of the pits, he could well have had magnussen pretty soon without pit stop problems.

Magnussen did came out behind Giovinazzi in that train. But in contrast to others he managed to pressure him into a mistake and took the opportunity to overtake. A strong race!

Yes to be fair, that probably was what allowed Grosjean to initially close a bit on him. But Magnussen was only with a distance that he would have got effected for a lap or two. He very quickly got past. Before that when he first came out, he was catching up and Grosjean looked as fast despite being in the train.

I never thought I'd see Hamilton with 0 points. This is not a dig, just a consideration that he had a damaged car. I did vote for Bottas myself, as he did a stellar job and the damaged car wouldn't have made much of a difference in the drag race to the first corner.

Ferrari as many people said was more difficult. The only one that really had me scratching my head. I went with Vettel in the end as I felt he was looking the fastest the whole weekend. But it wasn't an easy call

Siao7 wrote:I never thought I'd see Hamilton with 0 points. This is not a dig, just a consideration that he had a damaged car. I did vote for Bottas myself, as he did a stellar job and the damaged car wouldn't have made much of a difference in the drag race to the first corner.

Ferrari as many people said was more difficult. The only one that really had me scratching my head. I went with Vettel in the end as I felt he was looking the fastest the whole weekend. But it wasn't an easy call

Hamilton's car was not damaged for the start of the race and I believe most voted before it was realised that Hamilton's car got damaged on lap 4, nevertheless the race was lost at the start and nothing was going to change that really.

As for the poll it just shows how fair polls are on this site as sometimes results have been accused of being Hamilton centric.

pokerman wrote:

Rockie wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

Rockie wrote:For folks saying Vettel and Leclerc was close, how close was being over 10s behind in 13 laps and on the same strategy, outside of the race start he was no where near for Vettel, all I see is some mental gymnastics going on.

Apart from when he caught him up? I voted for Vettel because that was down to strategy but look at how many more votes Stroll has than Perez, also entirely down to strategy.

On the same strategy Vettel would have atleast a 30s gap to Leclerc going by what we witnessed the 1st 13 laps.

Stroll v Perez is not the same Apple vs Oranges there, when Vettel stopped Leclerc was over 10s behind in the space of 13 laps without traffic!

A slight exaggeration there Leclerc lost 3 seconds when he went off the track so on actual pace Leclerc was 7 seconds slower, Leclerc did double the first stint length of Vettel so if Vettel had done the same the gap would have been 17 seconds.

Or less:if Vettel had to double his first stint, he could not have pushed so much.

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote:I never thought I'd see Hamilton with 0 points. This is not a dig, just a consideration that he had a damaged car. I did vote for Bottas myself, as he did a stellar job and the damaged car wouldn't have made much of a difference in the drag race to the first corner.

Ferrari as many people said was more difficult. The only one that really had me scratching my head. I went with Vettel in the end as I felt he was looking the fastest the whole weekend. But it wasn't an easy call

Hamilton's car was not damaged for the start of the race and I believe most voted before it was realised that Hamilton's car got damaged on lap 4, nevertheless the race was lost at the start and nothing was going to change that really.

As for the poll it just shows how fair polls are on this site as sometimes results have been accused of being Hamilton centric.

Oh, I think I missed that bit. I didn't know that it was on lap 4, my bad

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Rockie wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

Rockie wrote:For folks saying Vettel and Leclerc was close, how close was being over 10s behind in 13 laps and on the same strategy, outside of the race start he was no where near for Vettel, all I see is some mental gymnastics going on.

Apart from when he caught him up? I voted for Vettel because that was down to strategy but look at how many more votes Stroll has than Perez, also entirely down to strategy.

On the same strategy Vettel would have atleast a 30s gap to Leclerc going by what we witnessed the 1st 13 laps.

Stroll v Perez is not the same Apple vs Oranges there, when Vettel stopped Leclerc was over 10s behind in the space of 13 laps without traffic!

A slight exaggeration there Leclerc lost 3 seconds when he went off the track so on actual pace Leclerc was 7 seconds slower, Leclerc did double the first stint length of Vettel so if Vettel had done the same the gap would have been 17 seconds.

Or less:if Vettel had to double his first stint, he could not have pushed so much.

Yeah I didn't think of that, given that Vettel always knew he was pitting early and Leclerc was always pitting late then Vettel was using his tyres up more than Leclerc, so the performance difference is probably artificial, then given that Leclerc caught Vettel later in the race and was told to hold station maybe I would have to consider my vote?

pokerman wrote:

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Or less:if Vettel had to double his first stint, he could not have pushed so much.

Yeah I didn't think of that, given that Vettel always knew he was pitting early and Leclerc was always pitting late then Vettel was using his tyres up more than Leclerc, so the performance difference is probably artificial, then given that Leclerc caught Vettel later in the race and was told to hold station maybe I would have to consider my vote?

Wrong assertion there Vettel didn't know he was pitting early as he wasn't pushing in the first stint nor did he complain about the tyres, also Verstappen did almost same amount of laps as Leclerc so the Leclerc was managing his tyre is a non starter.

Rockie wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Or less:if Vettel had to double his first stint, he could not have pushed so much.

Yeah I didn't think of that, given that Vettel always knew he was pitting early and Leclerc was always pitting late then Vettel was using his tyres up more than Leclerc, so the performance difference is probably artificial, then given that Leclerc caught Vettel later in the race and was told to hold station maybe I would have to consider my vote?

Wrong assertion there Vettel didn't know he was pitting early as he wasn't pushing in the first stint nor did he complain about the tyres, also Verstappen did almost same amount of laps as Leclerc so the Leclerc was managing his tyre is a non starter.

How do you know that Vettel was not pushing, also in the last 7 laps of his first stint Leclerc was matching the times of Verstappen which would point to Leclerc having been looking after his tyres given that Verstappen was basically quicker through the race.

Verstappen pitted after a clear drop off in time on lap 24 whilst Leclerc was able to go 3 laps longer without the same drop off. After his pit stop on lap 29 he was 16 seconds behind Verstappen, by lap 50 the gap was actually reduced to 14 seconds but then he came across Vettel and was told to hold station.

So apart from the first 17 laps of the race Leclerc had quite good pace whilst the reverse was true for Vettel, quite strange.