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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:16 pm 
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...when was the last season where the midfield pack wasn't close?

I can't think of a single season in my time watching F1 when there wasn't a small time gap between the mid-pack teams, this is totally standard and shouldn't be reason to be cheerful about specifically 2019 at all.

Sure, some seasons it might be close between the 4th best team and the 9th best team, or the 3rd best team and the 10th best team etc. but these differences are negligible in terms of spectacle, it's the gap between the 1st and 2nd teams which is most important and 2019 looks a tad worrying so far in that regard.

If the gap between the top two teams stays large, then we are in for a dull as dishwater season, no matter how many teams are embroiled in the 'midfield fight'.

2019 F1, please deliver a proper cross-team title fight for the first time since 2012.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:45 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
2019 F1, please deliver a proper cross-team title fight for the first time since 2012.

What about 2017 and 2018? Are you saying those were not proper cross-team fights just because one team ended up winning fairly handily?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:53 am 
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Exediron wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
2019 F1, please deliver a proper cross-team title fight for the first time since 2012.

What about 2017 and 2018? Are you saying those were not proper cross-team fights just because one team ended up winning fairly handily?


Correct. It's the final table that matters, not how close the points were in the early or middle part of the season.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:42 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
2019 F1, please deliver a proper cross-team title fight for the first time since 2012.

What about 2017 and 2018? Are you saying those were not proper cross-team fights just because one team ended up winning fairly handily?


Correct. It's the final table that matters, not how close the points were in the early or middle part of the season.


That makes no sense


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:34 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
2019 F1, please deliver a proper cross-team title fight for the first time since 2012.

What about 2017 and 2018? Are you saying those were not proper cross-team fights just because one team ended up winning fairly handily?


Correct. It's the final table that matters, not how close the points were in the early or middle part of the season.


Surely its the competitiveness of the two teams that determines good cross team fights and we've had that for 2 seasons now. How on earth 2012 qualifies but these last two don't is beyond me, the Red Bull had a reliability advantage against McLaren in 2012 and a significant pace advantage over the Ferrari. When RB and McLaren didn't implode the Ferrari couldn't get close to them outside of a few weekends, two of which were ruined by reliability and Grosjean respectively. Sitting and waiting/hoping the other car fails so you can take advantage is hardly much of a cross team title fight and for Ferrari that was most of the year.

Both 2017 and 2018 had both smaller gaps between the cars pace and comparable reliability from the teams involved than 2012 did by a good distance and any year really since 2008. Team and last year especially driver failings brought an early end to the title fights these past two years rather than the competitiveness of the fighting cars. Whereas in 2012 all the contenders were largely error free and we had the 7 different winners in the first 7 races thing that helped keep it close too so we went to the wire.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:

Surely its the competitiveness of the two teams that determines good cross team fights and we've had that for 2 seasons now. How on earth 2012 qualifies but these last two don't is beyond me, the Red Bull had a reliability advantage against McLaren in 2012 and a significant pace advantage over the Ferrari. When RB and McLaren didn't implode the Ferrari couldn't get close to them outside of a few weekends, two of which were ruined by reliability and Grosjean respectively. Sitting and waiting/hoping the other car fails so you can take advantage is hardly much of a cross team title fight and for Ferrari that was most of the year.

Both 2017 and 2018 had both smaller gaps between the cars pace and comparable reliability from the teams involved than 2012 did by a good distance and any year really since 2008. Team and last year especially driver failings brought an early end to the title fights these past two years rather than the competitiveness of the fighting cars. Whereas in 2012 all the contenders were largely error free and we had the 7 different winners in the first 7 races thing that helped keep it close too so we went to the wire.


It's the overall packages that determine how close it was, and that is determined by points earning ability. Having close pace doesn't matter if mistakes are made in converting that pace to points.

If last season's races occurred in reverse order, not many would have thought the title race was close as Hamilton/Mercedes build up a big early lead and then just manage the gap after that.

So 2012 was way more competitive than the last two seasons by this metric, and F1 was in a far better state back then.

Someone even posted a thread saying "Im calling it now, Hamilton will win this year's WDC", something they wouldn't have been able to say with much confidence if it was genuinely close.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:01 pm 
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The top 3 and the bottom 1 are set. The middle 6 are open for competition.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:14 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:

Surely its the competitiveness of the two teams that determines good cross team fights and we've had that for 2 seasons now. How on earth 2012 qualifies but these last two don't is beyond me, the Red Bull had a reliability advantage against McLaren in 2012 and a significant pace advantage over the Ferrari. When RB and McLaren didn't implode the Ferrari couldn't get close to them outside of a few weekends, two of which were ruined by reliability and Grosjean respectively. Sitting and waiting/hoping the other car fails so you can take advantage is hardly much of a cross team title fight and for Ferrari that was most of the year.

Both 2017 and 2018 had both smaller gaps between the cars pace and comparable reliability from the teams involved than 2012 did by a good distance and any year really since 2008. Team and last year especially driver failings brought an early end to the title fights these past two years rather than the competitiveness of the fighting cars. Whereas in 2012 all the contenders were largely error free and we had the 7 different winners in the first 7 races thing that helped keep it close too so we went to the wire.


It's the overall packages that determine how close it was, and that is determined by points earning ability. Having close pace doesn't matter if mistakes are made in converting that pace to points.

If last season's races occurred in reverse order, not many would have thought the title race was close as Hamilton/Mercedes build up a big early lead and then just manage the gap after that.

So 2012 was way more competitive than the last two seasons by this metric, and F1 was in a far better state back then.

Someone even posted a thread saying "Im calling it now, Hamilton will win this year's WDC", something they wouldn't have been able to say with much confidence if it was genuinely close.

That's just someone with the same mindset as yourself, Hamilton didn't even win the opening race of the season.

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