planetf1.com

Oh, and they need to sort out a new place to put the top three cars after the race next year. Was funny watching Bottas and Hamilton try to get around that tight corner

So now confirmed vettel just slow and Leclerc told to slow down and hold position and binotto didnt want to risk a pitstop for the FL.

Which is really really bad on both accounts

F1 Racer wrote:

j man wrote:

F1 Racer wrote:

j man wrote:Another thing I noticed. I hadn't realised (or had plain forgotten) that the DRS opening has been widened this year, and it was mentioned during the race that 3 DRS zones couldl become the norm. I am concerned that overtaking could become farcically easy on some circuits to the point where it becomes almost impossible to make a pass and then make it stick, a bit like what we usually see in Abu Dhabi with the two zones next to each other.

DRS is a band aid solution unfortunately and I share your concerns.

Indeed, and sadly the band aid has become a permanent fixture. Even if they do eventually sort out the fundamental issue of the cars not being able to pass each other, I wonder what would have to happen in order to demonstrate that it would no longer be needed.

Too many overtakes and cars flying past on the straights would be the indicator to finally remove DRS.

True. I'm just not convinced the governing body would see it that way. We have seen races like that without any public admission from the FIA that they messed up, or even any recognition that it was a bad thing.

BMWSauber84 wrote:I know it's only a single point but Ferrari surely blundered by not pitting Leclerc to go for a fastest lap point. There's an argument that perhaps there was a risk of a pit stop error or an off while pushing, but I'm very surprised they didn't make that call.

Tells you how teams think about the importance of this bonus point. If that prevails, it will add nothing to the closing stages of a race.

Tells us also how conservative many teams are thinking most of the time. To all the flat-out driving fans: it is not so much the tyres or fuel regulation that prevent it; it is more the inherent conservativism of the teams that will lead to preserving drives (rather than flat-out) under all regulatory scenarios. Sad but true.

BMWSauber84 wrote:

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:well done bottas. absolutely smashed hamilton. doesnt happen often so you have to enjoy it when it does. merc have to come up with an excuse why golden balls got beat so use a scratch on the floor.
.

I had no idea that you had thoroughly analyzed the floor of Hamilton's Mercedes. What other information were you able to learn from your inspection?

lol, you took the words right out of their mouth.

This sport would be far better without any of the haters.

Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

Indeed, one race and he's already under pressure.

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

Time for Kvyat to make an amazing comeback I think!

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:I know it's only a single point but Ferrari surely blundered by not pitting Leclerc to go for a fastest lap point. There's an argument that perhaps there was a risk of a pit stop error or an off while pushing, but I'm very surprised they didn't make that call.

Tells you how teams think about the importance of this bonus point. If that prevails, it will add nothing to the closing stages of a race.

Tells us also how conservative many teams are thinking most of the time. To all the flat-out driving fans: it is not so much the tyres or fuel regulation that prevent it; it is more the inherent conservativism of the teams that will lead to preserving drives (rather than flat-out) under all regulatory scenarios. Sad but true.

I think we already saw the fastest lap point add some extra interest to the closing stages of the race today, but I think people pitting especially to go for it is going to be rare.

The risk of pitting even when you are a pitstop ahead is not just the chance of a bad pitstop costing you, but also the potential cost of losing the buffer itself. If you have a non-terminal technical issue that costs you seconds per lap towards the end it could mean the difference between top 6 and being out of the points. Similar applies in the reverse if a driver ahead has a problem.

Because of the top 10 rule and associated risk /reward even when you do have a comfortable gap I think pitstops specifically to attack the bonus point are going to uncommon. Instead we're going to get people with a gap backing off and then attacking the fastest lap with full engine modes (as Bottas appeared to), or perhaps making more aggressive strategy calls with shorter stints towards the end of the race when they expect to finish just inside the points.

Moreover I think that is a good thing. It will add some interest and encourage attacking intent without being a separate focal point. It hopefully will become part of the bigger picture of the race rather than a race within a race.

UnlikeUday wrote:

pokerman wrote:Good win for Bottas, surprised to see Ocon is happy, Hamilton always seems to need an early season wake up call, same for the Mercedes strategy guy.

Who is the main competition Vettel or Verstappen?

Poker, You expect Ocon to bang the table with disgust (a la Toto) with Toto standing next to him? Ocon has to even show he's a team member & for him team is first & not his drive.

No he just seemed genuinely happy, good team player perhaps?

Mayox wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mcdo wrote:Valtteri Bottas crushes the opposition is not something I expected to type today! What a drive

I think Hamilton's race got somewhat killed with the early pit stop, look what happened to Vettel he needed team orders perhaps to keep Leclerc behind.

Even before in the first stint Bottas was just faster, great drive, give the guy credit, well deserved

...as in he crushed Hamilton?

UnlikeUday wrote:Stroll impressed as well. He was always under pressure, kept clean & finished in 9th starting from 16th. A trait of him where he picks up places & finishes higher.

Yes he beat Perez in the race which is supposed to be Perez's forte?

Alienturnedhuman wrote:

Mayox wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mcdo wrote:Valtteri Bottas crushes the opposition is not something I expected to type today! What a drive

I think Hamilton's race got somewhat killed with the early pit stop, look what happened to Vettel he needed team orders perhaps to keep Leclerc behind.

Even before in the first stint Bottas was just faster, great drive, give the guy credit, well deserved

Bottas is definitely the driver of the day, and I don't think Hamilton would have beaten him even if Hamilton had had the optimal strategy, however the gap in the first phase is a little meaningless to be able to draw conclusions from. Both Hamilton and Vettel were around 3 second behind, which is the gap you give to a car ahead when you are preserving tyre life. The typical strategy when you are racing a team mate and are behind is to wait safely outside of the dirty air to preserve the tyres better until the pitstop window and then close up and put in some fast laps after the car ahead has pitted. That's what both Hamilton and Vettel did, however Ferrari gambled by trying to shake things up and instead it backfired for them in the end, and compromised Hamilton's strategy. The lap times needed on the medium to last to the end were slower than the pace of the used softs, meaning the gap grew and then when Bottas pitted to the mediums, he could push harder because there was more life.

Again, this is not to take anything away from Bottas, he would have won regardless, but the ease at which Verstappen passed Vettel, and the fact Leclerc was clearly instructed not to pass Vettel when he was on the hard tyres, shows how sub optimal doing 40 laps on medium was.

Yeah that sums up things perfectly.

JN23 wrote:According to this tweet Hamilton had floor damage. I assume they'll be able to work out how the damage happened.

https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 63104?s=19

I would be thinking he damaged it on his first lap in Q3 when he ran wide in the first corner losing 4 tenths to Bottas in the process?

pokerman wrote:

JN23 wrote:According to this tweet Hamilton had floor damage. I assume they'll be able to work out how the damage happened.

https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 63104?s=19

I would be thinking he damaged it on his first lap in Q3 when he ran wide in the first corner losing 4 tenths to Bottas in the process?

Wouldn't they have noticed that before the race though?

F1 Racer wrote:

Herb wrote:

cmax wrote:

Clarky wrote:

cmax wrote:PDR saying at the end of the race that Mercedes didn't want Bottas to win.

No he was talking about Ocon as he is after the seat.

I might have misunderstood, but I think he reffered to the team rather than Ocon.

I'm paraphrasing, but he said "The only person in the Mercedes team who didn't want Bottas to win was Ocon"

It's also easier for Toto and Mercedes to dump Bottas the gentleman if he doesn't win, as well as him taking pointa from the number one driver, so all-round this wasn't an ideal result for them.

They visually celebrate Hamilton's pole positions more and they call Bottas a wingman. They want to win, but in the 'right' order.

Nice take on the suggestion that Ocon would have preferred Bottas not to win.

JN23 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

JN23 wrote:According to this tweet Hamilton had floor damage. I assume they'll be able to work out how the damage happened.

https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 63104?s=19

I would be thinking he damaged it on his first lap in Q3 when he ran wide in the first corner losing 4 tenths to Bottas in the process?

Wouldn't they have noticed that before the race though?

You would have perhaps thought that but it was the only time he went off the track.

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

Red Bull tend to be pretty decisive with drivers if they don't deliver. It's early days but he won't be allowed a full season if listless performances like that become the norm.

The saving grace for him is that there isn't an obvious replacement at Torro Rosso due to their young drover programme running a bit dry.

BMWSauber84 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

Red Bull tend to be pretty decisive with drivers if they don't deliver. It's early days but he won't be allowed a full season if listless performances like that become the norm.

The saving grace for him is that there isn't an obvious replacement at Torro Rosso due to their young drover programme running a bit dry.

They will just put him back in the Toro Rosso and promote one of the current Toro Rosso drivers if they feel one is performing better.

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

His whole battle with Kvyat was pretty pathetic. First he let Kvyat pass him after successfully jumping him in the pits. Then he had several laps where he was right behind Kvyat on fresh tires that were two steps faster and he couldn't get the overtake done. Considering Max's ability to pass Vettel on track, this was a poor effort.

I believe the team could have gotten Kvyat out of his way had they really wanted to. Toro Rosso is truly their B-team in the grand scheme of things. The bottom line though, is that they wanted to see if Gasly could make the pass. He couldn't.

I said coming into the season that Gasly might be the most overrated driver on the grid as his only comparison point thus far has been Brendan Hartly (a driver who I really don't think was even F1-caliber). More performances like this will lead to a 2016 repeat; only this time it might be a promotion for Kvyat instead of a demotion.

Maybe wishful thinking (and I know this track is not the best indicator) but it appeared the cars could more easily follow closely today…..

sandman1347 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

His whole battle with Kvyat was pretty pathetic. First he let Kvyat pass him after successfully jumping him in the pits. Then he had several laps where he was right behind Kvyat on fresh tires that were two steps faster and he couldn't get the overtake done. Considering Max's ability to pass Vettel on track, this was a poor effort.

I believe the team could have gotten Kvyat out of his way had they really wanted to. Toro Rosso is truly their B-team in the grand scheme of things. The bottom line though, is that they wanted to see if Gasly could make the pass. He couldn't.

I said coming into the season that Gasly might be the most overrated driver on the grid as his only comparison point thus far has been Brendan Hartly (a driver who I really don't think was even F1-caliber). More performances like this will lead to a 2016 repeat; only this time it might be a promotion for Kvyat instead of a demotion.

He was behind Kvyat for the entire race. He wouldn't have been near the points if Norris, Perez etc weren't baulked by Giovinazzi. He essentially made no progress through the field at all.

pokerman wrote:

JN23 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

JN23 wrote:According to this tweet Hamilton had floor damage. I assume they'll be able to work out how the damage happened.

https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 63104?s=19

I would be thinking he damaged it on his first lap in Q3 when he ran wide in the first corner losing 4 tenths to Bottas in the process?

Wouldn't they have noticed that before the race though?

You would have perhaps thought that but it was the only time he went off the track.

Excuses, excuses, excuses - anything to explain an donkey whipping!

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

Err, Ricciardo put it on the grass today like a amateur so no, not really. Comes down to luck doesn't it. Rb messed up his quali on a track that is difficult to pass. Marko himself said they ow him an apology which is alot comming from Marko. Any way I don't think they thinking too much about that, they and had a great result today. They beat Ferrari today on merit. Great result for Honda too after all they had been through,

It's hilarious reading Hamilton fans comment on the Ferrari situation when he just bottled in it the GP they just watched and they have no opinion on that but they are worried about the Ferrari team orders.
Leclerc was nowhere all race till a silly strategy messed Vettel up, in 12 laps Vettel had over 10s gap to him, in a normal race it will be the kind of drubbing he gives Kimi!

AravJ wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

Err, Ricciardo put it on the grass today like a amateur so no, not really. Comes down to luck doesn't it. Rb messed up his quali on a track that is difficult to pass. Marko himself said they ow him an apology which is alot comming from Marko. Any way I don't think they thinking too much about that, they and had a great result today. They beat Ferrari today on merit. Great result for Honda too after all they had been through,

It's nothing to do with luck. Can you honestly see Verstappen or Ricciardo following Kvyat round for 58 laps? Obviously not. They'd have made their way through the pack. When you're driving for a top team a lot more is expected than the performance Gasly put in today.

Biffa wrote:Maybe wishful thinking (and I know this track is not the best indicator) but it appeared the cars could more easily follow closely today…..

Hopefully?

mmi16 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

JN23 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

JN23 wrote:According to this tweet Hamilton had floor damage. I assume they'll be able to work out how the damage happened.

https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 63104?s=19

I would be thinking he damaged it on his first lap in Q3 when he ran wide in the first corner losing 4 tenths to Bottas in the process?

Wouldn't they have noticed that before the race though?

You would have perhaps thought that but it was the only time he went off the track.

Excuses, excuses, excuses - anything to explain an donkey whipping!

If his car was damaged then it was Hamilton that damaged it, why the angst?

Rockie wrote:It's hilarious reading Hamilton fans comment on the Ferrari situation when he just bottled in it the GP they just watched and they have no opinion on that but they are worried about the Ferrari team orders.
Leclerc was nowhere all race till a silly strategy messed Vettel up, in 12 laps Vettel had over 10s gap to him, in a normal race it will be the kind of drubbing he gives Kimi!

Are you sure they were all Hamilton fans and what did Hamilton bottle?

Rockie wrote:It's hilarious reading Hamilton fans comment on the Ferrari situation when he just bottled in it the GP they just watched and they have no opinion on that but they are worried about the Ferrari team orders.
Leclerc was nowhere all race till a silly strategy messed Vettel up, in 12 laps Vettel had over 10s gap to him, in a normal race it will be the kind of drubbing he gives Kimi!

Very salty comment man. Cheer up.

P-F1 Mod wrote:

Mayox wrote:

froze wrote:Ocon's careful clapping after Bottas' win.

yeah, kinda hilarious xd

It's a double-edged sword for Esteban. In one sense, he wants Bottas to fail so he can take over the 77. On the other hand, he's just witnessed that a driver can beat Hamilton on raw pace without unusual circumstances.

I would call a large hole in Hamilton's undertray "unusual circumstances".

Valtteri did beat him off the line heads up but especially after the pitstop Lewis was having problems that could be explained by the damaged floor.

lucifers wrote:yes podium interviews are back

Mort Canard wrote:

P-F1 Mod wrote:

Mayox wrote:

froze wrote:Ocon's careful clapping after Bottas' win.

yeah, kinda hilarious xd

It's a double-edged sword for Esteban. In one sense, he wants Bottas to fail so he can take over the 77. On the other hand, he's just witnessed that a driver can beat Hamilton on raw pace without unusual circumstances.

I would call a large hole in Hamilton's undertray "unusual circumstances".

Valtteri did beat him off the line heads up but especially after the pitstop Lewis was having problems that could be explained by the damaged floor.

I wonder if that's what Hamilton could feel when he started complaining about his tyres?

My conclusions from Australia 2019.

1) This track is always an outlier and never a good judge for the rest of the season so Red Bull/Ferrari fans do not get too disheartened.

2) Yet again this season how comfortable a car/driver is with the Pirellis and the associated wear performance will determine success which is not how it should be. Hamilton was intrinsically faster (pole) but Bottas really liked the tyres on this track hence he dominated. Still waiting for Pirelli to deliver a product that does not unduly affect race outcome.

3) Norris looks a future star, Giovinazzi doesn't. Having Kimi at Alfa Romeo will be good not only for them but for benchmarking future Ferrari youngsters. Too early to say as a permanent thing but Leclerc in Australia looked in between Vettel and Raikonnen level so good time for the switch.

4) 2019 cars are good balance of qualities and bode well for bigger 2021 changes.

5) Honda and Red Bull have come together at just the right time and I expect great things in the future from this combination, Max and Horner are happy anyway.

6) Alonso chose the right time to leave now get fully into Indy to give us all a reason to follow that series too.

7) RIP Charlie Whiting, a force for good and advancement in F1, your huge efforts over decades will not be forgotten !

pokerman wrote:

Mort Canard wrote:

P-F1 Mod wrote:

Mayox wrote:

froze wrote:Ocon's careful clapping after Bottas' win.

yeah, kinda hilarious xd

It's a double-edged sword for Esteban. In one sense, he wants Bottas to fail so he can take over the 77. On the other hand, he's just witnessed that a driver can beat Hamilton on raw pace without unusual circumstances.

I would call a large hole in Hamilton's undertray "unusual circumstances".

Valtteri did beat him off the line heads up but especially after the pitstop Lewis was having problems that could be explained by the damaged floor.

I wonder if that's what Hamilton could feel when he started complaining about his tyres?

I would very much think so!

Lack of proper rear downforce could very much feel like your tires going off early.

Pictures show Lewis checking out the hole in the floor in Parc Ferme and I wonder why he refused to say anything about it in the interviews.

mikeyg123 wrote:

AravJ wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

Err, Ricciardo put it on the grass today like a amateur so no, not really. Comes down to luck doesn't it. Rb messed up his quali on a track that is difficult to pass. Marko himself said they ow him an apology which is alot comming from Marko. Any way I don't think they thinking too much about that, they and had a great result today. They beat Ferrari today on merit. Great result for Honda too after all they had been through,

It's nothing to do with luck. Can you honestly see Verstappen or Ricciardo following Kvyat round for 58 laps? Obviously not. They'd have made their way through the pack. When you're driving for a top team a lot more is expected than the performance Gasly put in today.

You are wrong, as I said Ricciardo put it in the grass, being in a top car had nothing to do with that, he did not even give himself to move up the field. Vestappen was also stuck behind the Renault I think last year after he made a mistake. Thing is its his first race with RBR give him a break, top drivers had their off days too. Horner thought he did a solid job

Well folks. I fell in love with f1 along about 1953-4 when the tires were skinny and the drivers were fat. I’ve always been a fan of Ferrari but this years hype finally did me in. The pre season “Ferrari is on it this year has finished f1 for me.

mmi16 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

JN23 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

JN23 wrote:According to this tweet Hamilton had floor damage. I assume they'll be able to work out how the damage happened.

https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 63104?s=19

I would be thinking he damaged it on his first lap in Q3 when he ran wide in the first corner losing 4 tenths to Bottas in the process?

Wouldn't they have noticed that before the race though?

You would have perhaps thought that but it was the only time he went off the track.

Excuses, excuses, excuses - anything to explain an donkey whipping!

A damaged floor will severely hamper your performance - downforce, and rear tyre performance will suffer greatly, both of which will heavily impact on your lap time. It probably even accounted for start issues Hamilton had to some degree.

I still think Bottas drove brilliantly, and would have still won, but the gap would have been much closer. In 2 seasons of racing, Bottas has never "thrashed" Hamilton. It would be rather odd, and illogical for it to suddenly start now don't you think?

UnlikeUday wrote:Stroll impressed as well. He was always under pressure, kept clean & finished in 9th starting from 16th. A trait of him where he picks up places & finishes higher.

Missed this comment, totally agreed.

AravJ wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

AravJ wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Gasly was really, really poor. Ricciardo or Verstappen would have finished 6th given his race today. He will need to do an awful lot better than that.

Err, Ricciardo put it on the grass today like a amateur so no, not really. Comes down to luck doesn't it. Rb messed up his quali on a track that is difficult to pass. Marko himself said they ow him an apology which is alot comming from Marko. Any way I don't think they thinking too much about that, they and had a great result today. They beat Ferrari today on merit. Great result for Honda too after all they had been through,

It's nothing to do with luck. Can you honestly see Verstappen or Ricciardo following Kvyat round for 58 laps? Obviously not. They'd have made their way through the pack. When you're driving for a top team a lot more is expected than the performance Gasly put in today.

You are wrong, as I said Ricciardo put it in the grass, being in a top car had nothing to do with that, he did not even give himself to move up the field. Vestappen was also stuck behind the Renault I think last year after he made a mistake. Thing is its his first race with RBR give him a break, top drivers had their off days too. Horner thought he did a solid job

I'm very confused by your train of thinking RE Ricciardo. We have seen time and time again both he and Verstappen carve their way through the field. Verstappen even hit the points from dead last in Monaco last season. And what do you expect Horner to say? He's not going to come out and say one of his drivers did a terrible job is he?