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Mercedes are something else, you've got to admire it really. Lewis's last lap was a belter too. Ferrari need to do some work it seems and I'm in two minds about RBH, they've split the Ferrari's and are on the second row which sounds and is great, especially for Honda, but relatively they are further behind the leading car than last year, a lot further behind than where they ended the season too, and have been closed up on by some of the midfield and haven't gained as much as others which is a bit of a worry for them, the former especially with being further away.

Bit disappointed in Renault but pleasantly surprised by McLaren who seem to have got a good base to work on and have closed the gap to Red Bull to about a second which while double what I thought they could get to last year is actually pretty good considering where they fell too late last year. Sainz was unlucky too, he was on or faster than Norris's pace most of the weekend so could well have got to Q3 as well. The projected 9th by the journos who dismissed their WT times as glory runs is pretty funny too now. Lot of backtracking incoming.

Just feel a bit sad for Williams and Kubica tbh.

Enjoyable session to watch though and the midfield battle is insanely close.

I'm a bit surprised that Mercedes are that far ahead. They have been downplaying their speed before qualifying (but they had the data to know different), so would they really turn the engine up full if they didn't need to?
Given Bottas' performance last year, he looks good - being that close to Hamilton.

It's possible the Mercedes is even further ahead than qualifying indicates. We could have another year of Hamilton proving he is faster than Bottas.

Checo has let Stroll know it won't be easy matching him. I'm sure none of us expected to see Checo in P10.

Hulk outqualifying Dan is another talking point.

Eight thousandths isn't the end of the world but a good marker for the intra-team battle this year. 2019 is the year we should finally see how good Nico is.

So cute...A sweet kid wanted to meet his idol - Daniel Avocado!

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

Clarky wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:I'll wait until Spain personally. We saw this last year too, whatever the reasons.

If Mercedes are genuinely that far ahead Hamilton is pretty shameless with how much he was lying in the run up to this event, for little to no reason, so I doubt today was a true reflection.

Really...???

Well yeah, if he said Mercedes were half a second behind and they are half a second ahead he would clearly be aware he was telling the media nonesence, the whole of Mercedes in fact.

So like I said I very much doubt that we saw a reflective showing today, I don't see why Mercedes would say that when it's so far off the truth.

Maybe they were that far off the pace? Maybe the outright pace in Melbourne is a shock to Mercedes. Mercedes spent the entire second week of test understanding there package as much as possible so they could set it up and hit the ground running here in Melbourne. Valtteri in an interview on Sky Sports said between the last test and this weekend, the team have learnt a lot.. mix that with increased track temperatures and fuel adjustments..

If they knew they were quicker - then it was a master stroke of politics.

I genuinely believe Ferrari thought they had the outright pace to beat Mercedes though. Telltale sign was when the camera panned to Binnoto and he was shaking his head following Bottas opening lap! Seb was pretty downbeat as well.

UnlikeUday wrote:But when it comes to race, weren't Ferrari the best team when it came to race pace? With a good strategy, Vettel can still win provided he's atleast ahead of Bottas.

Hamilton was quickest in the race last year, he lost because of the VSC and a miscalculation by Mercedes.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Perez is the 5th best driver out there at the moment.

Only a tenth quicker than Stroll?

And Hamilton has been out qualified by Bottas on occasion whats your point?

I'm wondering how you judge Perez has the 5th best driver?

I think he's currently better than all of the other proven drivers apart from 4? a judgement made from observing his performances over his career.

I know basically how you think I just don't see being a tenth quicker then Stroll confirming that belief.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:On a side note; not too impressed with Leclerc in the end. Vettel bested him easily in Q3. It's just one race and he had a slow start last year too but I'd keep an eye on that. Not to put too much pressure on him. Vettel is a beast and a very experienced champion but I actually expected more from Charles.

I think you may need to be a bit fairer in your expectations.

Given how much hype Leclerc had and most expected him to clearly be better than Kimi, i think that fair. If we allow him time, he shouldn't be as highly rated as he is. I personally expected him to be no better than kimi for a good deal of this season, but think he will improve. At this moment in time, I think Bottas will be the strongest number 2 driver in the top 3 teams until some way through this season.

Indeed this needed saying because of things being said before the season.

Mr-E wrote:Norris was star of the day! Very impressive!

Have to agree with this Lando Norris has pulled off a brilliant qualification for McLaren, could Alonso have done any better? Shows the Renault engine has the potential to challenge.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

Clarky wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:I'll wait until Spain personally. We saw this last year too, whatever the reasons.

If Mercedes are genuinely that far ahead Hamilton is pretty shameless with how much he was lying in the run up to this event, for little to no reason, so I doubt today was a true reflection.

Really...???

Well yeah, if he said Mercedes were half a second behind and they are half a second ahead he would clearly be aware he was telling the media nonesence, the whole of Mercedes in fact.

So like I said I very much doubt that we saw a reflective showing today, I don't see why Mercedes would say that when it's so far off the truth.

Different tracks can suit different cars.

Option or Prime wrote:

Mr-E wrote:Norris was star of the day! Very impressive!

Have to agree with this Lando Norris has pulled off a brilliant qualification for McLaren, could Alonso have done any better? Shows the Renault engine has the potential to challenge.

Norris did well but Sainz would have been up there as well if he had not been balked.

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:On a side note; not too impressed with Leclerc in the end. Vettel bested him easily in Q3. It's just one race and he had a slow start last year too but I'd keep an eye on that. Not to put too much pressure on him. Vettel is a beast and a very experienced champion but I actually expected more from Charles.

I think you may need to be a bit fairer in your expectations.

Given how much hype Leclerc had and most expected him to clearly be better than Kimi, i think that fair. If we allow him time, he shouldn't be as highly rated as he is. I personally expected him to be no better than kimi for a good deal of this season, but think he will improve. At this moment in time, I think Bottas will be the strongest number 2 driver in the top 3 teams until some way through this season.

Indeed this needed saying because of things being said before the season.

There was no hype about Leclerc, it was just delusion of grandeur from folks believing he was going to beat Vettel whilst ignoring the qualifying prowess of Vettel.

It's the same with folks who are wowed by Hamilton finding the the time to beat Bottas whilst ignoring he had a wobble on the first run hence why Bottas was ahead, or they suddenly believed Bottas could put half a second between himself and Hamilton really!

Rockie wrote:

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:On a side note; not too impressed with Leclerc in the end. Vettel bested him easily in Q3. It's just one race and he had a slow start last year too but I'd keep an eye on that. Not to put too much pressure on him. Vettel is a beast and a very experienced champion but I actually expected more from Charles.

I think you may need to be a bit fairer in your expectations.

Given how much hype Leclerc had and most expected him to clearly be better than Kimi, i think that fair. If we allow him time, he shouldn't be as highly rated as he is. I personally expected him to be no better than kimi for a good deal of this season, but think he will improve. At this moment in time, I think Bottas will be the strongest number 2 driver in the top 3 teams until some way through this season.

Indeed this needed saying because of things being said before the season.

There was no hype about Leclerc, it was just delusion of grandeur from folks believing he was going to beat Vettel whilst ignoring the qualifying prowess of Vettel.

It's the same with folks who are wowed by Hamilton finding the the time to beat Bottas whilst ignoring he had a wobble on the first run hence why Bottas was ahead, or they suddenly believed Bottas could put half a second between himself and Hamilton really!

Your first sentence kind of contradicts itself whilst who are these people that thought Hamilton hadn't messed up his first lap?

pokerman wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

Clarky wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:I'll wait until Spain personally. We saw this last year too, whatever the reasons.

If Mercedes are genuinely that far ahead Hamilton is pretty shameless with how much he was lying in the run up to this event, for little to no reason, so I doubt today was a true reflection.

Really...???

Well yeah, if he said Mercedes were half a second behind and they are half a second ahead he would clearly be aware he was telling the media nonesence, the whole of Mercedes in fact.

So like I said I very much doubt that we saw a reflective showing today, I don't see why Mercedes would say that when it's so far off the truth.

Different tracks can suit different cars.

Exactly, and I expect that will prove to be the case over the next few races.

Delete double post - don't know why that happened.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

Clarky wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:I'll wait until Spain personally. We saw this last year too, whatever the reasons.

If Mercedes are genuinely that far ahead Hamilton is pretty shameless with how much he was lying in the run up to this event, for little to no reason, so I doubt today was a true reflection.

Really...???

Well yeah, if he said Mercedes were half a second behind and they are half a second ahead he would clearly be aware he was telling the media nonesence, the whole of Mercedes in fact.

So like I said I very much doubt that we saw a reflective showing today, I don't see why Mercedes would say that when it's so far off the truth.

Different tracks can suit different cars.

Exactly, and I expect that will prove to be the case over the next few races.

But to what extent? Of course, I don't expect that the true gap in performance between Mercedes and the next best is 7 tenths. However, the gap this year might be more ominous than it was in 2018, where neither Ferrari driver hooked up a lap.

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I think Russel has has about as much if not more recent experience than Kubica. Kubica was last in F1 over 8 years ago and it was totally different then. Anyway, I was pretty impressed by Russel and while it is impressive to see Kubica back in F1, I think he is probably going to be the weakest driver the grid has had for several years. At least compared to the rest on it that year. I know i haven't seen much yet, but I just don't have high expectations. It looked like Williams went for him because of his money and also to show that he is capable of impressing many people given what he's been through.

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I have to wonder if Kubica will see the season out if he continues to get out performed to that level in by far the worse car on the grid, this can't be what he dreamed about?

Haas seems to be 4th best team ATM or this track really suits them. Behind them midfield is very tight . Commentator keep on saying Ferrari looks really planted although it is not reflecting on their laptimes where as Mercedes ride is more bumpy. So I think Ferrari will be strong on more tradional tracks. RBR also I feel have more speed than what it looked. The gap between midfield and top teams is also encouraging so far

Invade wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

Clarky wrote: Really...???

Well yeah, if he said Mercedes were half a second behind and they are half a second ahead he would clearly be aware he was telling the media nonesence, the whole of Mercedes in fact.

So like I said I very much doubt that we saw a reflective showing today, I don't see why Mercedes would say that when it's so far off the truth.

Different tracks can suit different cars.

Exactly, and I expect that will prove to be the case over the next few races.

But to what extent? Of course, I don't expect that the true gap in performance between Mercedes and the next best is 7 tenths. However, the gap this year might be more ominous than it was in 2018, where neither Ferrari driver hooked up a lap.

To the extent that overall for the year Ferrari could still have the best car. We saw races last year like France, Spain and Singapore where Mercedes were as srong as today in qualifying.

Could be that Mercedes have a dominant car again this year or could be that this track just happened to suit them.

Black_Flag_11 wrote: To the extent that overall for the year Ferrari could still have the best car. We saw races last year like France, Spain and Singapore where Mercedes were as srong as today in qualifying.

Could be that Mercedes have a dominant car again this year or could be that this track just happened to suit them.

Yeh, I'm sure Ferrari will fight back, though they might have to wait a while before owning a weekend.

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I have to wonder if Kubica will see the season out if he continues to get out performed to that level in by far the worse car on the grid, this can't be what he dreamed about?

They were relatively close on pace all weekend though. That gap is not representative. But Russell seems like a really good driver, too bad he won't be able to show much in that car.

Mercedes-Benz wrote:Haas seems to be 4th best team ATM or this track really suits them. Behind them midfield is very tight . Commentator keep on saying Ferrari looks really planted although it is not reflecting on their laptimes where as Mercedes ride is more bumpy. So I think Ferrari will be strong on more tradional tracks. RBR also I feel have more speed than what it looked. The gap between midfield and top teams is also encouraging so far

Being planted means nothing if you ain't got enough downforce though. That Mercedes just looked like a beast in Australia. Let's see what happens at the next venue. I still don't think they will be dominant over the season, because there will be tracks where they won't be able to optimize the setup for sure. If the season started in Barcelona, I have little doubt Ferrari would have been fastest, but different tracks for different folks...

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I have to wonder if Kubica will see the season out if he continues to get out performed to that level in by far the worse car on the grid, this can't be what he dreamed about?

I can imagine him bitterly regretting the opportunity to be Ferrari reserve driver. And yes, I can see him being replaced after 5 races. Just before Monaco.

kleefton wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I have to wonder if Kubica will see the season out if he continues to get out performed to that level in by far the worse car on the grid, this can't be what he dreamed about?

They were relatively close on pace all weekend though. That gap is not representative. But Russell seems like a really good driver, too bad he won't be able to show much in that car.

It was closer, Russell had posted a lap 0.6s faster than Kubica going into qualifying.

Lt. Drebin wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I have to wonder if Kubica will see the season out if he continues to get out performed to that level in by far the worse car on the grid, this can't be what he dreamed about?

I can imagine him bitterly regretting the opportunity to be Ferrari reserve driver. And yes, I can see him being replaced after 5 races. Just before Monaco.

I think a driver would always take a race seat over a reserve seat.

Lt. Drebin wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I have to wonder if Kubica will see the season out if he continues to get out performed to that level in by far the worse car on the grid, this can't be what he dreamed about?

I can imagine him bitterly regretting the opportunity to be Ferrari reserve driver. And yes, I can see him being replaced after 5 races. Just before Monaco.

Sheesh you guys aren't really giving him a proper chance, at least wait until the weekend is over. Besides, 1.7s in that undriveable Williams isn't the same as 1.7s in e.g. the Mercedes.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I think Russel has has about as much if not more recent experience than Kubica. Kubica was last in F1 over 8 years ago and it was totally different then. Anyway, I was pretty impressed by Russel and while it is impressive to see Kubica back in F1, I think he is probably going to be the weakest driver the grid has had for several years. At least compared to the rest on it that year. I know i haven't seen much yet, but I just don't have high expectations. It looked like Williams went for him because of his money and also to show that he is capable of impressing many people given what he's been through.

I honestly don't think Kubica will make it to the end of the season. He really seems to struggle to keep the car on the road and I think that he's essentially driving with one hand out there. Being in such a terrible car doesn't help things either. That said, the gap in qualifying was not in any way representative of the pace difference between him and Russel. Robert never got in a clean lap.

For me, Ocon should be in the car. Robert was a great driver in his day but that was a long time ago now and I just don't see the point of him being on the grid.

Covalent wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I have to wonder if Kubica will see the season out if he continues to get out performed to that level in by far the worse car on the grid, this can't be what he dreamed about?

I can imagine him bitterly regretting the opportunity to be Ferrari reserve driver. And yes, I can see him being replaced after 5 races. Just before Monaco.

Sheesh you guys aren't really giving him a proper chance, at least wait until the weekend is over. Besides, 1.7s in that undriveable Williams isn't the same as 1.7s in e.g. the Mercedes.

I'm also taking into account the car he is driving, I can't believe that was the kind of F1 opportunity that he would have been wanting?

Now I’m hearing rumours that the new Ferrari engine was running conservatively because of overheating issues and this forced Ferrari to take off DF to compensate.

https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/status/1 ... 35264?s=19

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:On a side note; not too impressed with Leclerc in the end. Vettel bested him easily in Q3. It's just one race and he had a slow start last year too but I'd keep an eye on that. Not to put too much pressure on him. Vettel is a beast and a very experienced champion but I actually expected more from Charles.

I think you may need to be a bit fairer in your expectations.

Given how much hype Leclerc had and most expected him to clearly be better than Kimi, i think that fair. If we allow him time, he shouldn't be as highly rated as he is. I personally expected him to be no better than kimi for a good deal of this season, but think he will improve. At this moment in time, I think Bottas will be the strongest number 2 driver in the top 3 teams until some way through this season.

Indeed this needed saying because of things being said before the season.

I think people just didn't want to be caught sleeping again after Ricciardo. If the gap between Leclerc and Vettel is around 2 tenths then Leclerc is doing a very good job for a guy in his 2nd season.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:On a side note; not too impressed with Leclerc in the end. Vettel bested him easily in Q3. It's just one race and he had a slow start last year too but I'd keep an eye on that. Not to put too much pressure on him. Vettel is a beast and a very experienced champion but I actually expected more from Charles.

I think you may need to be a bit fairer in your expectations.

Given how much hype Leclerc had and most expected him to clearly be better than Kimi, i think that fair. If we allow him time, he shouldn't be as highly rated as he is. I personally expected him to be no better than kimi for a good deal of this season, but think he will improve. At this moment in time, I think Bottas will be the strongest number 2 driver in the top 3 teams until some way through this season.

Indeed this needed saying because of things being said before the season.

I think people just didn't want to be caught sleeping again after Ricciardo. If the gap between Leclerc and Vettel is around 2 tenths then Leclerc is doing a very good job for a guy in his 2nd season.

Being in his second season, you can expect that his speed will not likely become dramatically better moving forward. The notion that young drivers keep getting faster and faster is a myth. Generally, by your 2nd or 3rd season, you are as fast as you will ever be.

I wasn't trying to bash Charles but, as TheGiantHogweed mentioned, this kid was heavily hyped coming into the year and many of us thought he had the pace to challenge Vettel. Perhaps he does but he didn't show it in Q3 when it mattered. It's just one qualifying session and no one is trying to make final judgments but it was an underwhelming debut IMO.

KingVoid wrote:Now I’m hearing rumours that the new Ferrari engine was running conservatively because of overheating issues and this forced Ferrari to take off DF to compensate.

https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/status/1 ... 35264?s=19

From the looks of it, Mercedes were producing MUCH more power on Saturday. They also seemed to have superior turn in and traction in the low speed corners. Look at the side by side video. Hamilton pulls away under acceleration AND under braking. Qualifying was a slaughter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gNzoy1hmSA

KingVoid wrote:Now I’m hearing rumours that the new Ferrari engine was running conservatively because of overheating issues and this forced Ferrari to take off DF to compensate.

https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/status/1 ... 35264?s=19

I guess something that didn't show up in Barcelona because of the cooler conditions?

So Mercedes are not entirely sandbagging the opposition?

Ferrari’s engine department was incredible last year. They need to do one helluva job this year if they want to challenge Mercedes seriously, because atm there is clearly something wrong with the PU.

Haas and Alfas reported the same problem.

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I have to wonder if Kubica will see the season out if he continues to get out performed to that level in by far the worse car on the grid, this can't be what he dreamed about?

Wait the gap only ended up that big because of the contact with the wall. Yes that was driver error on Kubica's part but he's not 1.7s slower than Russell

mcdo wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Norris & Albon shining on their debuts.

Let me add Russel in here. He was some 1,7 sec faster than Kubica. It's not his fault that Williams is so slow. In being faster than the experienced guy who is sharing his equipment, he did all what is needed for his very successful debut.

I have to wonder if Kubica will see the season out if he continues to get out performed to that level in by far the worse car on the grid, this can't be what he dreamed about?

Wait the gap only ended up that big because of the contact with the wall. Yes that was driver error on Kubica's part but he's not 1.7s slower than Russell

I got that too late. But, Kubica was last in all sessions.

sandman1347 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote: I think you may need to be a bit fairer in your expectations.

Given how much hype Leclerc had and most expected him to clearly be better than Kimi, i think that fair. If we allow him time, he shouldn't be as highly rated as he is. I personally expected him to be no better than kimi for a good deal of this season, but think he will improve. At this moment in time, I think Bottas will be the strongest number 2 driver in the top 3 teams until some way through this season.

Indeed this needed saying because of things being said before the season.

I think people just didn't want to be caught sleeping again after Ricciardo. If the gap between Leclerc and Vettel is around 2 tenths then Leclerc is doing a very good job for a guy in his 2nd season.

Being in his second season, you can expect that his speed will not likely become dramatically better moving forward. The notion that young drivers keep getting faster and faster is a myth. Generally, by your 2nd or 3rd season, you are as fast as you will ever be.

I wasn't trying to bash Charles but, as TheGiantHogweed mentioned, this kid was heavily hyped coming into the year and many of us thought he had the pace to challenge Vettel. Perhaps he does but he didn't show it in Q3 when it mattered. It's just one qualifying session and no one is trying to make final judgments but it was an underwhelming debut IMO.

I agree if Leclerc ends up being 2 tenths slower than Vettel then that's not really impressive given what was expected of him.