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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:19 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tim3003 wrote:
Interesting to reflect on the inter-team rivalry. Is Hamilton worth 6 times as much as Bottas? How does Bottas feel about his role and towards Toto Wolf knowing these figures? It looks to me that Toto's saying 'Wingman yes, title contender, no.'

Is Vettel worth 12 times what Leclerc is? That seems easier to justify given their experiences than the Merc figures.

Another point: how are these salaries affected by sponsorship the drivers bring to their teams? Especially as regards Kubica and Stroll - if Stroll's effectively being paid £900k pocket-money by his Dad, is that a salary at all?! :]

If you see Vettel has been worth 12 times the salary of Leclerc then Hamilton is easily worth 6 times the salary of Bottas.

Not so much that Vettel is 12 times better than Leclerc, but he has a larger seniority margin. Vettel is a top driver in his 12th year in F1, compared to a youngster in his 2nd year. Hamilton is a top driver in his 13th year in F1, compared to a driver in his 7th year. The ability gap between Hamilton and Bottas may be larger, but the seniority gap is much larger for Vettel.

That said, salaries are actually determined by marketability, and I think Ferrari is badly underpaying Leclerc on the F1 pay scale.

I don't understand why one can be alright but not the other, Hamilton is a 5 times WDC and won 11 races last year, Bottas had zero wins, it should have been 2 wins but nevertheless he has achieved far less than Hamilton, I daresay some drivers would gladly take his place for less money?
I'm not sure I get what you mean about one being alright and not the other? It's almost impossible to compare between different teams because there is no standard pay strategy and what works for one may be completely irrelevant to the other.

Ferrari and Mercedes both signed big-name drivers at their peak and are paying them accordingly, but the number 2s have very different rationales. I would argue that Bottas is vastly overpaid; so is Leclerc, but for different reasons. Bottas is a clear number 2 (by that I mean he hasn't shown the ability to challenge Hamilton) and has obviously (to me) been retained to be a wingman, regardless of what Wolff and others may say. And I think Bottas wouldn't dream of going elsewhere and losing the chance of a seat at a team like Mercedes, which is why I think they could have paid him far less. Leclerc is largely unproven but Ferrari are clearly hoping he's the next big thing - but at the end of the day they are taking a fairly large leap of faith and I'm convinced threy could have secured him for a lot less, with maybe a performance lock-in to protect against other teams poaching him. But at the end of the day I think both drivers' salaries were negotiated without any reference to what their team mates were earning, so all this talk of multipliers is irrelevant.

I'm not the one distinguishing between the two drivers and saying that Bottas is underpaid.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:34 am 
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Gotta throw the BS flag on this one.
Image

From what I have read on this report The Daily Mirror is a Tabloid's Tabloid that has had to pay out huge amounts in court settlements for their industrial grade hockum pucky.

The Race Fans story seems a lot more reasonable to me.

How much do F1 drivers really earn? Don’t believe the clickbait.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/12/201 ... clickbait/

Their take in US dollars:

Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes - $35M.

Sebastian Vettel - Ferrari - $30M.

Max Verstappen - Red Bull - $16M.

Daniel Riccairdo - Renault - $15M.

Nico Hulkenberg - Renault - $10M.

These are likely base salaries and don't include any bonus money.

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Last edited by Mort Canard on Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:50 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:40 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Inappropriate post removed

I'll take posts that won't last for more than a day for $100, Alex.

:thumbup: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:58 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Gotta throw the BS flag on this one.
Image

From what I have read on this report The Daily Mirror is a Tabloid's Tabloid that has had to pay out huge amounts in court settlements for their industrial grade hockum pucky.

The Race Fans story seems a lot more reasonable to me.

How much do F1 drivers really earn? Don’t believe the clickbait.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/12/201 ... clickbait/

Their take in US dollars:

Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes - $35M.

Sebastian Vettel - Ferrari - $30M.

Max Verstappen - Red Bull - $16M.

Daniel Riccairdo - Renault - $15M.

Nico Hulkenberg - Renault - $10M.

These are likely base salaries and don't include any bonus money.

Indeed and like I said that corresponds to what I heard that Ricciardo is getting paid no more money than the improved offer from Red Bull, I doubt Red Bull would have offered Ricciardo $26M whilst only paying Verstappen $16M?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 21st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:12 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Yes I think racefans.net seems less accurate.

Well, I don't know where the other salaries have been estimated from either. But at least there is a rather good explanation in this article. And he does have a fair bit of knowledge. They are estimates, but all from 1 person by the look of it. The other lot doesn't really have a convincing article with it to make it as believable to me. The original site for the list doesn't really say much about how the information was collected, or who helped collect it. Neither do several other websites that also have a different estimate.

Given the description in the article, I certainly think the one on racefans is what I currently would trust most.


I already gave the reason why I think it is not accurate with Hulk, Stroll and Grosjean as examples. The first link has Ricciardo 26 where other has it 16. There was a report Mclaren had even offered him 20million and RBR said they were also ready to offer Ricciardo what he asked for, which I think was same salary as Max. I would not be surprised if he is getting more than Max in Renault.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:24 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
An interesting article exclusively written for racefans.net. Looks like they think these salaries are somewhat inaccurate. Quite a different estimate of what they think it will be closer to for each driver:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/12/201 ... clickbait/

No way Romain Grosjean is worth 2.3 times the amount of money Kevin Magnussen is. Next time Gunther offers such a disparity in wages, KMag better pull out the old Hulkenberg quote

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:50 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
An interesting article exclusively written for racefans.net. Looks like they think these salaries are somewhat inaccurate. Quite a different estimate of what they think it will be closer to for each driver:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/12/201 ... clickbait/

No way Romain Grosjean is worth 2.3 times the amount of money Kevin Magnussen is. Next time Gunther offers such a disparity in wages, KMag better pull out the old Hulkenberg quote

After the way he finished the season I thought that KMag was lucky to keep his seat, there was a rumour that he had to take a pay cut?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 21st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:52 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
An interesting article exclusively written for racefans.net. Looks like they think these salaries are somewhat inaccurate. Quite a different estimate of what they think it will be closer to for each driver:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/12/201 ... clickbait/

No way Romain Grosjean is worth 2.3 times the amount of money Kevin Magnussen is. Next time Gunther offers such a disparity in wages, KMag better pull out the old Hulkenberg quote

After the way he finished the season I thought that KMag was lucky to keep his seat, there was a rumour that he had to take a pay cut?

The way Grosjean started his I thought he was lucky to see Abu Dhabi

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:41 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
An interesting article exclusively written for racefans.net. Looks like they think these salaries are somewhat inaccurate. Quite a different estimate of what they think it will be closer to for each driver:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/12/201 ... clickbait/

No way Romain Grosjean is worth 2.3 times the amount of money Kevin Magnussen is. Next time Gunther offers such a disparity in wages, KMag better pull out the old Hulkenberg quote

After the way he finished the season I thought that KMag was lucky to keep his seat, there was a rumour that he had to take a pay cut?

The way Grosjean started his I thought he was lucky to see Abu Dhabi

Yes and it was also rumoured that his drive was under threat but he turned things around in the second half of the season.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 21st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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