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Wouldn't that be great karma!

Not happening. Marko has been far too cocky for them to have lost pace with the leaders to that extent anyway.

Red Bull will probably dominate shortly tbh, they now have the (Allegedly) biggest spending engine manufacturer with the biggest spending chassis builders. If it doesn't happen this year it'll be next.

I doubt it. I genuinely think that the Honda engine is better than Renault's now.

They have McLearnt their lesson.

If this has happened, I will soak my hat in Chandon and consume it while listening to the F1 theme at high volume.

Exediron wrote:If this has happened, I will soak my hat in Chandon and consume it while listening to the F1 theme at high volume.

Can't see that happening, especially for McLaren.

Toro Rosso looked pretty quick in testing (although I'm sure with low fuel, etc). This suggests the Honda engine isn't too far off.

Renault are hopefully a bit closer to the top 3, but I reckon we won't see them challenge properly for a couple more years.

McLaren will be better than last year, but still planted in the midfield.

Also not sure on the karma thing - if I recall it was McLaren that complained about Honda and wanted desperately to change engines for 2018.

Yeah I don't see McLaren or Renault being able to challenge Red Bull just yet. Toro Rosso looked pretty quick so it's likely that Red Bull would be even quicker once unleashed. They may still have some reliability issues but to be fair so do Ferrari so difficult to say whether Honda are still problematic at this stage. McLaren put in an impressive number of laps but overall I don't see the Renault-powered cars being anything other than midfield at this stage. Would be extremely happy to be wrong as I desperately want McLaren back at the front, but sadly I think they closed the door on that dream when they kicked Honda into touch and I see Red Bull as far more likely to be WDC/WCC contenders than the Renault-powered teams.

Oh how I want it to be true!

I took nothing from testing that suggested Honda had made major steps. It looks like it will be close behind the top two, but I think Red Bull will be around (if not just behind) Renault and McLaren - at least at the beginning of the season.

I very much dislike Verstappen and the Red Bull team as a whole, but all I can say is that I'd be glad if McLaren and Renault just closed the gap to Red Bull for a start. Though not wishing any bad to Honda, I won't be offended if Honda helps them to leapfrog Red Bull. But if they ever do, I will not soak any hat in Chandon... nor buy a Renault car.

Only races where Renault and Mclaren will finish ahead if RBR have a DNF. It is very unlikely both cars to have DNF. Hopefully the gap between midfield and top team is not huge. Last year Max and Ricciardo starting behind were easily able to clear the pack and midfield did not even put a fight.

Mercedes-Benz wrote:Only races where Renault and Mclaren will finish ahead if RBR have a DNF. It is very unlikely both cars to have DNF. Hopefully the gap between midfield and top team is not huge. Last year Max and Ricciardo starting behind were easily able to clear the pack and midfield did not even put a fight.

Red Bull seem confidant they have closed the gap somewhat on Ferrari and Mercedes.

Oh gosh, this forum is so childish, and full of bias.
Cya

Filip wrote:Oh gosh, this forum is so childish, and full of bias.
Cya

Thank you for your highly valued & insightful contribution to the discussion.

Adios Amigos

Back on topic. Oh how I want this to be true but my gut feeling, based on no evidence at all, is that Renault will find that they've not closed the gap to the top 3, initially at least, but McLaren have maybe moved up a peg or 2.

I'm not sure what hints, if any, pre-season testing revealed as to the pecking order of the teams, but it looks to me that while the big 3 will maintain their gap to the others, maybe the gap between them has closed, the gap between the F1.5 teams has also closed up, & then we have Williams.

For me personally, I'd love to see Renault & McLaren leapfrog RB & TR or see both Honda teams parked on the side of the track each race smoking like chimneys, but I don't see it.

NO ON KNOWS WHO FALLS WHERE IN THE PECKING ORDER UNTIL Q1. Until then ALL teams are sandbagging, holding their cards CLOSE to their chest.
The teams themselves only know about their own product, outside perhaps Toro Rosso & Red Bull and maybe Sauber & Ferrari. Other than that, each team
only knows about it's own equipment, if and where their drivers are pushing and/or lifting, in order to keep from showing their full hand. They're all gauging engine performance,
finding ideal rev ranges in order to better understand how to gear their cars for different tracks, learning all the little nuances of their suspension geometry, aero, everything.

Come Q1 at Albert Park, THAT'S wen anyone will have a proper body of work from which to draw an educated conclusion as to the pecking order.

And whether Honda has surpassed Renault in the engine department is irrelevant because they might have a better low to mid range power band, or in a different area, but the rest
of the car being better could overcome some areas of deficiency that might make it seem the engine is the difference, when it could be the car itself overcoming a power deficit.
We saw it from Red Bull the last several years with under-powered Renault units powering their cars at certain tracks where they were indeed the fastest, sometimes in a straight line.
You just never know with Racing.

In a segment that pretty much just pans Renault to the point one of the "experts", Scott Mitchell, states that Renault are not relevant to the 2019 season, Autosport are reporting the rumours around the paddock are that Renault have found about 40hp with the new PU development.

Comments at around the 3min mark



Also, considering claims coming from Honda & RB around the power comparison between Honda & Renault, I found this interesting little snippet dated August 2015.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/12056 ... ault--arai

"When asked where he believes Honda sits in relation to the other F1 engine suppliers, Arai said: "40-50[hp] behind Mercedes but about 25 ahead of Renault".

"Our engine is a little bit behind Ferrari but much better than the Renault team"

Sound familiar?

Jezza13 wrote:Also, considering claims coming from Honda & RB around the power comparison between Honda & Renault, I found this interesting little snippet dated August 2015.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/12056 ... ault--arai

"When asked where he believes Honda sits in relation to the other F1 engine suppliers, Arai said: "40-50[hp] behind Mercedes but about 25 ahead of Renault".

"Our engine is a little bit behind Ferrari but much better than the Renault team"

Sound familiar?

Everything about the situation is familiar, right down to Max describing the factory as amazing, Marko saying the engine is like a work of art, and Honda saying they'll need to revise their packaging ahead of Melbourne because it was too aggressive.

The only thing missing has been a smoking Red Bull trackside, and time will tell if that shows up once the engine gets turned to full.

Exediron wrote: The only thing missing has been a smoking Red Bull trackside, and time will tell if that shows up once the engine gets turned to full.

I may have dreamt this but was there stories during week one of testing that Red Bull were running their engine low because turning up high would cause a lot of issues for it?

JN23 wrote:

Exediron wrote: The only thing missing has been a smoking Red Bull trackside, and time will tell if that shows up once the engine gets turned to full.

I may have dreamt this but was there stories during week one of testing that Red Bull were running their engine low because turning up high would cause a lot of issues for it?

Mark Priestly mentioned in one of his video's that the rumour doing the rounds in wk 1 of testing was that Honda still had the vibration issues Helmut Marko alluded to a month or so ago & that was forcing them to run with the PU turned down.

Jezza13 wrote:

JN23 wrote:

Exediron wrote: The only thing missing has been a smoking Red Bull trackside, and time will tell if that shows up once the engine gets turned to full.

I may have dreamt this but was there stories during week one of testing that Red Bull were running their engine low because turning up high would cause a lot of issues for it?

Mark Priestly mentioned in one of his video's that the rumour doing the rounds in wk 1 of testing was that Honda still had the vibration issues Helmut Marko alluded to a month or so ago & that was forcing them to run with the PU turned down.

That was it. Big question is whether they solved it (assuming it was true in the first place)

Adrian Newey won WDCs with Jacques Villeneuve and Damon Hill. I would never count him out.

ptr250 wrote:Wouldn't that be great karma!

Let's see !

Frankly I will be surprised if the Honda engine isn't decidedly superior to the Renault at this point. Their budget is far larger and the performance in testing certainly indicates that they are third best at this stage.

These power rankings on the teams make for interesting reading...one can only hope

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... hTV3W.html

Kev627 wrote:

Mercedes-Benz wrote:Only races where Renault and Mclaren will finish ahead if RBR have a DNF. It is very unlikely both cars to have DNF. Hopefully the gap between midfield and top team is not huge. Last year Max and Ricciardo starting behind were easily able to clear the pack and midfield did not even put a fight.

Red Bull seem confidant they have closed the gap somewhat on Ferrari and Mercedes.

Yes I am sure RBR will be fighting for podiums with top 2 teams. Renault and Mclaren will fight for 4th with other midfield teams. If Renault and Mclaren are within 30secs I think they would have done a decent job

The gap last year to top teams was 1sec per lap. With Mclaren pretty much getting lapped every race and Renault were 1min or so behind if not being lapped. The bad news for midfiled team is that top team also progress at much faster rate through the season. Hopefully the gap won't be big and if top teams are starting behind there will be some good battles to see in the race.

McLaren will struggle to get in the top five teams but at least they don't have to guilt of running any more of Alonso's career.

Maranello1 wrote:McLaren will struggle to get in the top five teams but at least they don't have to guilt of running any more of Alonso's career.

McLaren were not responsible, Alonso was. He chose to resign with them after shooting himself in the foot the first time...
McLaren may be partially responsible for Perez not getting a top drive in the way they abandoned him, same with Vandoorne and maybe a couple of others, Alonso made his own bed

dompclarke wrote:

Maranello1 wrote:McLaren will struggle to get in the top five teams but at least they don't have to guilt of running any more of Alonso's career.

McLaren were not responsible, Alonso was. He chose to resign with them after shooting himself in the foot the first time...
McLaren may be partially responsible for Perez not getting a top drive in the way they abandoned him, same with Vandoorne and maybe a couple of others, Alonso made his own bed

They're responsible for not giving him a top car, aren't they?

title should read, Toro Rosso and not RBR. I have a feeling RB will be catching the big 2, and distancing themselves from the others.

rodH wrote:title should read, Toro Rosso and not RBR. I have a feeling RB will be catching the big 2, and distancing themselves from the others.

I hope so! Would be great for RBR to be competing for wins on a regular basis.