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So I thought the when will McLaren get on the scoreboard thread was lots of fun, and there's only one way to go now that they got there.

Down the toilet.

Nah, up, of course! (There are actually several ways to go) But how long will it take?

I haven't included every single race because I think it's superfluous given the odds that they actualy make the podium at all this year as it looks right now. Feel free to specify a certain race if you want to try to look awesome a year from now.

I hope there's still some way to snarkily misinterpret the poll question, not wanting to disappoint clever Finns.

They're in bigger trouble than anyone expected. Honda are way behind and there is no silver bullet to fix that. If I were them, I would focus completely on the regulations overhaul in 2017. They should focus their resources on that car as soon as the regs are finalized. That's their best bet to get back to the front. They are too far behind to catch the leaders next year.

I do think they'll likely poach a podium at some point in 2015 or 2016 though. They have two of the top 5 drivers on the grid and that counts for something. As soon as the car becomes a Q3 car, both Button and Alonso will be a threat.

2016 at the earliest. I'm going to be pessimistic and say late 2016

RunningMan wrote:2016 at the earliest. I'm going to be pessimistic and say late 2016

I don't think that's being pessimisit given Honda was a year behind development wise.

Some when around the second coming of christ.

jrwb6e wrote:

RunningMan wrote:2016 at the earliest. I'm going to be pessimistic and say late 2016

I don't think that's being pessimisit given Honda was a year behind development wise.

Was? The next year they still will be a year behind development wise.

They might have a lucky day or two to get to the podium in the next year, providing they make a real use of this testing year. They keep beating the drums how they are making constant progress, but are still struggling in the lower regions of the field. When they start making an actual progress towards the upper levels, it will be far tougher to make it into top 3 teams. And 2 teams (Mercedes and Ferrari) are consistently there up, and that is already one of these 4 cars being guaranteed short of the podium.

jrwb6e wrote:

RunningMan wrote:2016 at the earliest. I'm going to be pessimistic and say late 2016

I don't think that's being pessimisit given Honda was a year behind development wise.

Considering how 2015 is meant to be the "testing year" Anything other than podiums in early 2016 will be a disappointment. Hence me saying podiums by late 2016 is a pessimistic target

Let me ask you another question.
How many teams have been on the podium this season? 2 which is the absolute minimum.
When will Williams get on the podium, Red Bull any other team than Mercedes and Ferrari?
McLaren will improve. F1 in general however is not in a good state.
We had the same trio on the podium 6/7.
Talking about McLaren struggling is in my opinion because there is little else to talk about...

I think the next time they get a podium will be after Alonso/Button retire.

The team is struggling with back markers and being lapped by top / middle order teams.

I think they will have a Williams style multi-year slump for a few to come.

When it rains.

"In Singapore, they'll win it in fact! Button crashing out, so sad."

Haha, I missed this before voting, it's a gem.

They had the best engine in F1 last year and only scored one lucky podium.
I am starting to think that with Honda it may not happen for a very long time. Definitely not this year. It seems they are spinning their wheels at the moment. If they are at the same level next year I can't see Alonso staying on for the 2017 season.

We might only really know come the end of the year if they could then START to make a challenge in 2016.
Realistically, late 2016 at the earliest I feel.
After that, especially if we do have lots of changes/new regs etc for 2017 - then its anyones guess..

Lt. Drebin wrote:"In Singapore, they'll win it in fact! Button crashing out, so sad."

Haha, I missed this before voting, it's a gem.

Unlikely, but definitely worth a laugh !

Sligthly related, I guess they're lucky they managed to score in Monaco, because now it seems the engine penalties have arrived...

Ooh! Ooh! New poll! How many PUs will McLaren use this season?

When Jenson trips and falls over it on his way to the weight station.

sandman1347 wrote:They're in bigger trouble than most expected.

Corrected for you.

I for one said they were in trouble at the start of the season when they were 4-5? seconds off the pace at Australia. I said they would struggle and even their first points in Monaco wasn't special. When you are having to rely on a "less" power required track to get a few points, that really does say it all.

McLaren have realised how much work is required just to get in the top 10 which for McLaren is beyond incredibly poor.

an embarrassing season for mclaren/honda.

2017 at the earliest.

jrwb6e wrote:

RunningMan wrote:2016 at the earliest. I'm going to be pessimistic and say late 2016

I don't think that's being pessimisit given Honda was a year behind development wise.

Actually, while the other teams were restricted in the amount of testing and development they could do in 2014, Honda did not have any such restrictions, and could see where Ferrari & Renault were having issues, while at the same time watch Merc and see what seemed to be working. I agree that it is not the same as what one learns in the races themselves, but I fully expected Honda to come in this year with both guns firing so to speak. I saw it as an advantage not having the in-season development limitations that they teams in the sport were stuck with.

So are they really "behind" in development because they didn't race last year... or are they behind because they just have not provided the product?

Amon wrote:Let me ask you another question.
How many teams have been on the podium this season? 2 which is the absolute minimum.
When will Williams get on the podium, Red Bull any other team than Mercedes and Ferrari?
McLaren will improve. F1 in general however is not in a good state.
We had the same trio on the podium 6/7.
Talking about McLaren struggling is in my opinion because there is little else to talk about...

Ironically Williams will get on the podium 1 day after you posted this.


Anywhooooo...........I voted first half of 2016 because there's always the potential of a meteorite strike in the first race of the season.

Second half of 2016 if lucky.

I went for second half of 2016. And I think that's on the optimistic side.

I went for "After both current drivers have left the team". Nobody expected them to be this bad. As pessimistic as I was I thought they'd be looking at a regular shot at points by now. But they look like they're still where they were in Malaysia and China - nowhere.

I have faith that they will come good in 2016. I put second half to hedge my bets

I do not know.

Ever the optimist, I went for first half of 2016.

Probably late-first half though

Button's vote:

“We won’t get a podium this year."

“Next year will be a lot more exciting than 2015 but you cannot just jump to 2016, you have to do the work, otherwise you don’t deserve the good results.
“You have to work for it.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1 ... et-5848108

chaz986 wrote:Some when around the second coming of christ.

Didn't we already have that... in the final half-mile at Brazil, 2008?

2016. Ironically it appears that Macca actually have a good chassis with a poor (new) engine this year insted of a poor chassis and good engine last year.
To me it seems that the Honda engine has a lot of unlocked potential, but neither they nor Macca can find the key.

tootsie323 wrote:

chaz986 wrote:Some when around the second coming of christ.

Didn't we already have that... in the final half-mile at Brazil, 2008?

2016. Ironically it appears that Macca actually have a good chassis with a poor (new) engine this year insted of a poor chassis and good engine last year.
To me it seems that the Honda engine has a lot of unlocked potential, but neither they nor Macca can find the key.

Yeah, this is the thing. I'd say there's buckets of horsepower ready to be unleashed in that car. It's just because of gremlins, cooling issues and what not that they aren't able to do so. Once they get them sorted out, Honda could be up there with Mercedes and Ferrari easily.

Has Mclaren got the chassis of a Mercedes or even a Ferrari? I'm still not sure. The drivers appear optimistic about it, although neither of them have driven the Mercedes yet.

Schumacher forever#1 wrote: Yeah, this is the thing. I'd say there's buckets of horsepower ready to be unleashed in that car. It's just because of gremlins, cooling issues and what not that they aren't able to do so. Once they get them sorted out, Honda could be up there with Mercedes and Ferrari easily.

Would be nice for all people involved, but sadly this is not the impression Arai gave in an interview one or two weeks ago. They seem not to know where and how to unlock much more horsepower.

mcdo wrote:I went for "After both current drivers have left the team". Nobody expected them to be this bad. As pessimistic as I was I thought they'd be looking at a regular shot at points by now. But they look like they're still where they were in Malaysia and China - nowhere.

I expected them to be this bad and said so last year. My point back then was to look at how competitive they were in IndyCar versus Chevy. If anything Honda is doing worse this year versus Chevy than they were last year.

I have to wonder if Honda is splitting too much time between both series and neither one is paying off for them.

In Singapore, they'll win it in fact! Button, Merhi, Sainz, Maldonado, Hamilton, Rosberg, Raikkonen, Vettel crashing out, so sad.

For a second there, as cars were eliminated left and right and Alonso started gaining place after place, I was starting to think that one admirably loyal and optimistic McLaren fan would be proven right.

But he/she wasn't. And it took a lot of attrition, both FIs out, one Ferrari out, both Mercs having 'problems', Williams having a terrible time, penalties galore, without all that I'm not sure Macca would've scored points yesterday. Maybe it's looking more like 2016 than 2017 after yesterday at least?

What I find interesting, is those who were quick to defend McLaren by claiming their issues are not that deep - have not reappeared in this thread.

Only reason they got something this race was because of a bit of luck, right tyre change for Alonso and the cars in front having problems.

Teddy007 wrote: Only reason they got something this race was because of a bit of luck, right tyre change for Alonso and the cars in front having problems.

Basically, this. Sure there has been some optimism yesterday, and I'm sure a fifth place feels great after what they have endured this season so far. But ultimately not that much has changed. In fact, I think there's proper reason to get really pessimistic now.

Think of it: according to Honda this was the first weekend that they were running full power. I would have expected there to be a big gain from that. Instead, they were still struggling for Q2 and they were still in the back of the midfield pack. Yes, they were faster than the Saubers - but that's basically it.

I would have expected a little more from running at full power.

2016 I think.

Good result yesterday, but I think that race was a bit of a crazy one with a lot going on. And a number of cars that would likely have been faster dropped out.

Then again, a slightly crazier race, or a downpour at the right time for Alonso or Button and I they look like they'd have at least a fighting chance now at a result. That's a slightly bleak outlook but not as bleak as it was at the start of the season.

Although there were a lot of incidents they looked genuinely competitive with the Torro Rosso's.
So looks like a good step forward.
I hope its not just a once off with track layout and conditions.

AravJ wrote:Although there were a lot of incidents they looked genuinely competitive with the Torro Rosso's.
So looks like a good step forward.
I hope its not just a once off with track layout and conditions.

Glad someone else spotted this, I think they were also racing for the first time this season IMO with the likes of force india and lotus , who both have merc engines

AravJ wrote:Although there were a lot of incidents they looked genuinely competitive with the Torro Rosso's.
So looks like a good step forward.
I hope its not just a once off with track layout and conditions.

I have no idea why half the world seems to insist on using two 'r's in that name. It's Toro, not Torro

I think it was mostly circumstantial. The STR's mostly ran behind others so couldn't show full pace. The brief moment when Verstappen was released he widened the gap between him and Alonso from 3 to 7 seconds (equal tyres if I'm not mistaken).
Then at the end Alonso could keep up with Verstappen but the latter had damage to his wing so I'm not sure he could run full pace anymore.

They've taken a step forward, they were genuinely quicker than Sauber, but as I said above I don't feel like that's particularly exciting what with them running full power for the first time. It means that this is probably the biggest jump in performance relative to others you'll see for the entire year. Sure they still have tokens - but the others do too.